MEWXPZLFUDAWV Club!

[Bella]

Okay, well, I backed up all the files on DY. My reasoning? Okay, the DVDs and HD--if one of those fail, if my data is deleted on K8, then I'm down to one backup that must work. But DY--if the files are on DY, then I can always reproduce them (IOW, make DVDs on DY and shuttle them back to K8). Barring a massive HD failure happening to DY in the few hours between the time I restore XP and the time I move all my data back to K8, I don't see what could go wrong.

So I'm going to reinstall XP now.

[C-Chan]

Too late now, but you did read the part about emptying out K8's Windows system?  That way you end up with FOUR backups and a boatload of confidence.  ^^

But in any event, I believe in Bella-hime.  She will persevere!  ^___^

*does Free Willy pose*

...

*gets crushed by Orca*

Added after 4 minutes:

Barring a massive HD failure happening to DY in the few hours between the time I restore XP and the time I move all my data back to K8, I don't see what could go wrong.

Won't deter anyone from covering all possible bases -- it's good preemptive thinking.  But still -- if something WERE to happen with those impossible statistical odds, then surely it cannot be anything less than the GAWDS smiling (or ROTFLing) at you.  ^^;

The fact that you also have never messed with your partitions is also a BIG plus for you -- most OEM reinstallation discs are pretty dumb, and freak out whenever any of their silly hidden partitions are no longer present.

There can be nothing but success at this point!

COME ON, BELLA-HIME!!
YOU CAN DO IT, BELLA-HIME!!!  ^V^

[Bella]

Hey, I’m writing from K8. The reinstallation went well--actually, there was some option to keep all my files and just install XP again, but honestly it sounded kinda like a recovery partition setup of sorts. And I had ceremoniously deleted all my data anyhow. So I did a full disk format and reinstallation. After XP reinstalled I threw out all the trial programs, installed my programs, and moved my files back. All seems well and it’s a ton faster now.

I should note K8 has a heckuva time reading those DVDs. Some backup those became-it couldn’t read one of them, and if refused to copy files off of another one. So I had to use my backup HD…but I tell you, I was really happy the files were backed up on DY.

Yes indeed, that's the sad truth. ^^

On the other hand, it's probably better this way. As I always say: "Nothing can be Perfect without a few Imperfections."

Had the community been uniformly kind, helpful and devoted, I would have been very suspicious. Even we have our differences every once in a while, but it helps to keep things balanced. ^.^

Very true. No good could exist without evil…

*BRAIN EXPLODES!!!!*

Oh dear GAWDS, I think I'm gonna puke. >v<

In fairness, I guess that's just the wonderful world of advertising. People will LOVE Coca Cola and/or Pepsi, until they find out it gave them diabetes and/or kidney diseases. (although some will still drink it anyway -- what can we say, it's just DAMN good marketing..... -.-; )

Speaking of which, I saw the Seinfeld M$ ad yesterday. It was, to put it in the only words I can muster, WHAT THE FSCKING HELL WAS THAT!!!1! It was nothing short of art. Words cannot describe it. Only witnessing it firsthand can:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afR5J7eskno

I think it’s rather clever. M$ invites you, the viewer, to find you own message in this ad. Clearly, the discount shoe store symbolizes the M$ Corporation, with the store manager…Billy Boy…the leader of this empire, a man who isn’t afraid to work with the people. The ill-fitting shoe, obviously, symbolizes Windows Vista. Sure, you don’t want to throw out your comfy, well-fitting, worn shoes (XP), but they’re starting to get too old and your friends are telling you to just buy a new pair already. Sure, you could buy Prada shoes or try Birkenstocks (that would be Mac or Linux, respectively), but you don’t wanna get too far off the beaten path--so you find yourself at the Shoe Circus (M$) once again.

But when you try on this shoe (Vista), ouch! It doesn’t fit you well, and when you go for a stroll you start to get blisters. It really wears on you, but the salesman (Billy) assures you it’ll feel alright if you give it time. So you buy it. But it’s still uncomfortable, and hey, what’s that, you find it’s still wearing on you. But if you beat this shoe up enough--even wear it in the shower and have Billy twist it around for you--it starts to feel a bit better. This is a message to trust M$, to trust Billy, and give Vista a try. Sure, it’ll be painful and difficult, and will never feel as comfortable as your old sho--I mean, your old OS, but you’ll adjust. Either that, or get caught wearing Birkenstocks.

OMGx2.... T____T'

Well I suppose I can't be too hard,... I only got acclamated be reinstallations after I lost everything to the great Hard Drive Crash of '01 (where I lost TONS of my ancient game-mod artwork).

But don't fall into the trap of shelling out TONS of money just for security -- that's just giving up. Remember the old phrase by one of your founding fathers: "Those who give up Freedom for Security deserve Neither", or something like that." -.-

Plus you ONLY have 10GB of files to back up. Why not dump them all into DY and/or another computer, and create more backups? That way, you have 4 or 5 backups -- talk about impossible odds. --;

It actually came to me last night I should shuttle the files onto DY…

OMGx5... T______________T;

Well see my above post about making more backups on other machines -- you already have an external hard drive, so it should be easy as pie. If you feel its a bad omen to "destroy" those files when you do the reinstallation (even if you have 10 backups around the house), then don't leave them in the computer.

MOVE them into your external hard drive, instead -- that way, psychologically-speaking, you'll only be reinstalling an empty shell rather than all your precious media. That way too it serves as a good last-minute check -- with Windows emptied out including of all the applications that let themselves be uninstalled), it's easy to spot anything that was accidentally left behind.

I won't sanction wasting money to feel better, even if it means buying a Linux netbook. If you want a good Linux netbook, I'll help fund the purchase of an Acer Aspire One, a Dell Inspiron 9, or whatever doesn't come with SUSE or Xandros,... but never under these circumstances, no. I want you to BELIEVE in yourself -- that's really the most important part of why I want you to go through with this. Confidence can't be bought, it has to be built from the ground up and now (or at least when you're done making more backups or researching the subject matter more) is the best time to start!  

And BTW, being a man is overrated. ^____^
Want REAL courage....

...

...YOU GOTTA BE A PIG!!!!!! ^V^

Thank you for that…I actually felt a lot better knowing that the files were on “Indestructible DY”. But before that, I didn’t trust my backups (and one did turn out to be unreliable.)

If I wanted a new computer, I would have gotten one long ago. But K8 is the computer I like using.

Won't deter anyone from covering all possible bases -- it's good preemptive thinking. But still -- if something WERE to happen with those impossible statistical odds, then surely it cannot be anything less than the GAWDS smiling (or ROTFLing) at you. ^^;

Oh, kinda like when The Universe conspired to cheat me out of my wireless broadband service...? T__T

[C-Chan]

Woohoo!!!!!!!  You made it! ^___^

See?  You're still alive, right?  You didn't lose an arm or anything, right?  ^.^

Congratulations, Bella-hime!  Not only have you fulfilled you XP Rite of Passage, but you've now officially outsmarted the Geek Squaders!!  I'm so proud of you!!  

*blows kisses*  ^v^

How does it feel to have so much unlimited power now?  Bet it feels great, doesn't it?  Just remember:  "With great power, comes great responsibility... for feeding tech-savvy pigs that demand food!"

I swear, it's the original saying!  

Now then...

*opens maw, expecting delicious cake*

And I had ceremoniously deleted all my data anyhow.

Very good, you followed my advice.   ^__^
I was gonna ask you to try out Google Chrome now that you were intentionally hosing your system,... but guess it slipped my mind. You can have so much fun with a system destined to be destroyed/replaced.

So I did a full disk format and reinstallation. After XP reinstalled I threw out all the trial programs, installed my programs, and moved my files back. All seems well and it’s a ton faster now.

It's the freshly-ground file system that makes it faster.  Once the hard drive starts getting fragmented and the little hidden processes start accumulating is when you start seeing the characteristic performance slide.

There's plenty of research material out there to help you counteract that, although its still generally accepted that simple reinstallations are easier.  ^__^

I should note K8 has a heckuva time reading those DVDs. Some backup those became-it couldn’t read one of them, and if refused to copy files off of another one. So I had to use my backup HD…but I tell you, I was really happy the files were backed up on DY.

Fufufu... well now that you're in the clear, trying burning some more DVDs.... slowly.... ^_______^;

On the other hand, if you have used K8's DVD drive a lot, don't forget that laptop optical disc drives do get flakey sooner than desktop models.  Tomoyo's optical disc drive is complete shot to hell, and that's why I mainly use my external DVD writers to perform disc reading and writing on her.

(Tomoyo, btw, is the name of my old HP ze1210 I still have around -- my first laptop that I vowed to keep forever and is currently running PCLOS for torrent seeding and the like.)

Speaking of which, I saw the Seinfeld M$ ad yesterday. It was, to put it in the only words I can muster, WHAT THE FSCKING HELL WAS THAT!!!1! It was nothing short of art. Words cannot describe it. Only witnessing it firsthand can:

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow................  @.@

I haven't... "refunded",.... my breakfast, lunch and dinner simultaneously ever since they released their lego-style-at-first-but-then-Cartoon-Network-knockoff mascots (what were their names again? -- they were so memorable, I forgot who they were).  ^^;

I knew they'd find a way to botch this somehow, but I never realized they'd come with a brave new way to make even the Amiga marketers look like advertising gurus.  I tip my hat at what is truly an epic and commendable work in utter fail.  XvX;

I love your interpretation of it, btw.  If they really wanted to save Vista, they would've done better to hire you.  ^___^

It actually came to me last night I should shuttle the files onto DY…

Having more than one computer is the best backup money can buy.  ^__^

Thank you for that…I actually felt a lot better knowing that the files were on “Indestructible DY”. But before that, I didn’t trust my backups (and one did turn out to be unreliable.)

If I wanted a new computer, I would have gotten one long ago. But K8 is the computer I like using.

And now you've proven that you definitely deserve her, so by all means use her proudly!  You've earned the right to be called her proud owner. ^___^

*keeps lavishing praise and flowers on Bella*

===================

In other news,.. in case you were still practicing shell script... here's a nice graphical chart of a standard Linux file tree:

http://bp3.blogger.com/_Vbsj-yhipTw/RvaiatPBPBI/AAAAAAAAABs/yjx3hPlEUNw/s1600-h/linux_file_structure.jpg

It's missing the /proc folder though, but that one isn't really a real folder -- it's a virtual interpretation of the kernel.  That's why it never gives you an accurate file size -- it just spits out some impossibly-large number when you try.  ^^

[Bella]

Woohoo!!!!!!! You made it! ^___^

See? You're still alive, right? You didn't lose an arm or anything, right? ^.^

Congratulations, Bella-hime! Not only have you fulfilled you XP Rite of Passage, but you've now officially outsmarted the Geek Squaders!! I'm so proud of you!!

*blows kisses* ^v^

How does it feel to have so much unlimited power now? Bet it feels great, doesn't it? Just remember: "With great power, comes great responsibility... for feeding tech-savvy pigs that demand food!"

I swear, it's the original saying!

Now then...

*opens maw, expecting delicious cake*

Here, I found a cake!



Yeech, wrong cake! @__@'

Here, try this one!



Thank you for yet again helping me out of another computer catastrophe

Very good, you followed my advice. ^__^
I was gonna ask you to try out Google Chrome now that you were intentionally hosing your system,... but guess it slipped my mind. You can have so much fun with a system destined to be destroyed/replaced.

I was thinking about trying out UXtheme multi-patcher, which involves screwing around with a system file to be able to install 3rd-party Windows themes. But I decided I probably wouldn't use it anyhow...

It's the freshly-ground file system that makes it faster. Once the hard drive starts getting fragmented and the little hidden processes start accumulating is when you start seeing the characteristic performance slide.

There's plenty of research material out there to help you counteract that, although its still generally accepted that simple reinstallations are easier. ^__^

Not only that, but before I had a ton of programs installed--ones I didn't even really use. To picture it, my program start menu was about two rows, from almost the top of the screen to the bottom. Now? All the programs installed and shown in the start menu can fit inside one tiny row...

Fufufu... well now that you're in the clear, trying burning some more DVDs.... slowly.... ^_______^;

On the other hand, if you have used K8's DVD drive a lot, don't forget that laptop optical disc drives do get flakey sooner than desktop models. Tomoyo's optical disc drive is complete shot to hell, and that's why I mainly use my external DVD writers to perform disc reading and writing on her.

(Tomoyo, btw, is the name of my old HP ze1210 I still have around -- my first laptop that I vowed to keep forever and is currently running PCLOS for torrent seeding and the like.)

I actually found a few files missing, so I used one of the DVDs...the one with my documents stored on it...and it worked fine....: |

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow................ @.@

I haven't... "refunded",.... my breakfast, lunch and dinner simultaneously ever since they released their lego-style-at-first-but-then-Cartoon-Network-knockoff mascots (what were their names again? -- they were so memorable, I forgot who they were). ^^;

I knew they'd find a way to botch this somehow, but I never realized they'd come with a brave new way to make even the Amiga marketers look like advertising gurus. I tip my hat at what is truly an epic and commendable work in utter fail. XvX;

I love your interpretation of it, btw. If they really wanted to save Vista, they would've done better to hire you. ^___^

My friend and I were watching TV when this ad came on. After it aired we exchanged WTF?! looks and burst into laughter.

And now you've proven that you definitely deserve her, so by all means use her proudly! You've earned the right to be called her proud owner. ^___^

*keeps lavishing praise and flowers on Bella*

Ironically, I got K8 nearly four years ago to the day...

===================

In other news,.. in case you were still practicing shell script... here's a nice graphical chart of a standard Linux file tree:

http://bp3.blogger.com/_Vbsj-yhipTw/RvaiatPBPBI/AAAAAAAAABs/yjx3hPlEUNw/s1600-h/linux_file_structure.jpg

It's missing the /proc folder though, but that one isn't really a real folder -- it's a virtual interpretation of the kernel. That's why it never gives you an accurate file size -- it just spits out some impossibly-large number when you try. ^^

I actually got a bit sidetracked by all this drama, but now that I have my computer back, I'll be able to play around with the CLI on Puppy Linux a bit more. That chart is kinda useful...

[IanDanKilmaster]

M$ + wannabe cool marketing campaign = LOLsrslyWTF?! I mean, when Apple does a condescending marketing campaign--they do it well, and they make it entertaining. When M$ does the same…it’s cringe-worthy. And chock full O' FUD.

Speaking of which, I saw the Seinfeld M$ ad yesterday. It was, to put it in the only words I can muster, WHAT THE FSCKING HELL WAS THAT!!!1! It was nothing short of art. Words cannot describe it. Only witnessing it firsthand can:

So yeah, the day that I read each of these posts, I start seeing these ads on TV.  Funny thing is, despite his frustration at seeing the "I'm a Mac" ads everyday, my dad seems to be equally frustrated with the Mojave ad.  I must say, his aged stubborness has proven to be quite useful in keeping him away from Vista.

Anyway, it's great to see that everything seems to be working for you, Bella-san.  I know from experience that a re-installation isn't the easiest thing to do (in terms of concern over losing data), but it does indeed do miracles for computer performance (yes, even with Linux).  My main problem with re-installation is that my DVD/CD/CD-RW drive is up s*** creek, so the only reliable option for backing up would be using another hard drive (or buying a DVD writer to replace my dying drive).

On a side note, it turns out my younger sister didn't know about the Microsoft anti-trust case, so I got my chance to plant seeds of knowledge (and paranoia).

[C-Chan]

Here, I found a cake!



Yeech, wrong cake! @__@'

Here, try this one!

Too late!  X___X

*careens*
*croaks*
*rolls into ball*
*dies of botulism*

Thank you for yet again helping me out of another computer catastrophe  

Well no, thank YOU for listening and believing in yourself.  Any lesser women would have just let all my advice drift into one ear and fly out the other.  -v-

Not only that, but before I had a ton of programs installed--ones I didn't even really use. To picture it, my program start menu was about two rows, from almost the top of the screen to the bottom. Now? All the programs installed and shown in the start menu can fit inside one tiny row...

Aa sou sou... in that case, it's likely all the leftover/outstanding Registry entries, as well as all the prefetch garbage, that slowly and steadily clogged up your system.  ^^

Now that you're definitely operating off a completely clean slate, expect to find yourself making better and wiser software choices.  ^.^

My friend and I were watching TV when this ad came on. After it aired we exchanged WTF?! looks and burst into laughter.

There is some truth that perhaps the commercial's point was to get everyone talking about Microsfot, as a few friends and I were busy shredding the commercial to pieces and laughing our collective asses off.  On the other hand, we also collectively agreed with one another that we'd never get near more M$ products if we could help it -- just in case that retardness we saw is contagious.  ^^;

Ironically, I got K8 nearly four years ago to the day...

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, K8!!!  ^v^

On a side note, it turns out my younger sister didn't know about the Microsoft anti-trust case, so I got my chance to plant seeds of knowledge (and paranoia).

Ugh... sounds like my last client... ^^'

Client:  "Computer companies are trying to get at my money?  HORRORS!!"  

Me:  Le sigh...  -__-

Must be the whole "believe the men in the white coat" syndrome -- just because they [may] be smart, doesn't mean they're not duchbags.  ^___^'

[IanDanKilmaster]

Ugh... sounds like my last client... ^^'

Client: "Computer companies are trying to get at my money? HORRORS!!"

Me: Le sigh... -__-

Must be the whole "believe the men in the white coat" syndrome -- just because they [may] be smart, doesn't mean they're not duchbags. ^___^'

Don't get me wrong, she was aware that there were reasons that people didn't trust M$, but she's not really a computer person (well, she is comp-literate and works with photo-stuff) so she never bothered to research it.  I've explained to her that I find Ballmer to be more of a douche than ol' Billy Boy, but neither is very innocent.

btw.  It just so happens that of the two of us, she's the more artistically-gifted, but thus far I've been unable to convince her that she should try her hand at using the mouse to draw.

[C-Chan]

*laugh laugh chortle chortle*  [about the douche reference]  ^^

BTW, it's probably for the better.  Precisely because you're using a mouse, Inkscape is more "sculpting" than it is "drawing".  Hand drawer > vector artist is not necessarily a natural progression, I will admit.  -v-

[IanDanKilmaster]

*laugh laugh chortle chortle*  [about the douche reference]  ^^

BTW, it's probably for the better.  Precisely because you're using a mouse, Inkscape is more "sculpting" than it is "drawing".  Hand drawer > vector artist is not necessarily a natural progression, I will admit.  -v-

Yeah, that's something she explained, but I really think her art (which is very cartoonish) would be well-suited to the interwebs.  If I wanted to be really Freudian about it, I'd say that I'm exerting the same pressures on her that my parents exert on me (this whole thing about wasted potential and whatnot).

Anyway, I think it's really easy to hate a man like Ballmer, whether one hates M$ or not, since he tends to run off at the mouth a lot, much in the same way people hate Tom Cruise, regardless of their feelings about Scientology.  I guess if I spoke my mind as often (and in the same brash fashion) as either of them have, I'd probably be hated too -.-

[NejinOniwa]

Well no, thank YOU for listening and believing in yourself. Any lesser women would have just let all my advice drift into one ear and fly out the other. -v-

BELIEVE IN ME, WHO BELIEVES IN YOU!
C-Chan = New Kamina? Wait and see in the next episode of Tengen Toppa Gurren OS-Tan!

Also, with Portal's success, cake seems to have become a huge commercial meme. Vis-cake made me laugh. ^^

[Bella]

In Linux Is Big In The Middle of Nowhere News: last weekend I found myself in rural Vermont. Now, when I say rural--that probably doesn't accurately describe this town. This place was several orders of magnitude more rural than rural. My friend couldn't even find this town on his GPS system. But here I find myself at an Autumn festival, somewhere near geographical nowhere, selling some of our prints.

I start telling my friend about my recent computer problems, and I go into a rather heated diatribe about the screwiness of M$ .NET framework, not to mention those updates. Well, a potential buyer...a rather normal, plaid-shirt wearing, boot-donning, rural, forest-dwelling type... overhears this.
"Having problems with Vista?" he asks.
"Seesh! No, I use XP, I'd never get near Vista."
"Good. I just got a computer running Vista," he says wistfully. His doubtful head shake is worth a thousand words.
"Yeah, my next computer will probably be a Mac." I reply.
Now here comes the great part. His enthusiastic reply? "I like Linux the best. Open source is the way to go!"

I now have my classic OMGWTF!!!!1!!! A Linux user? NO WAI!! look on my face, the same as when my...rural, forest-dwelling neighbor...went on about how great Linux is. I didn't think to say anything interesting or insightful, so all I did was give thumbs up and say "Hey! I use Linux too!". And just as with the neighbor, this guy doesn't seem the least bit surprised.

[C-Chan]

ZOMG!!!!!!  That's it, I'm moving to this New England region of yours!!   Tis like the Promised Land!!

[imitates Bostonian accent... badly] Prehpahre ah pig pehn fohr meh, cahse I'ahm cohmin ohver.... and stuhffll!! ^0^

*waves Buffalo Bills flag, thinking it's a New England Patriots one*

In my own bit of news, I'm currently fixing up two more Windows systems (and inserting the usual FOSS/Linux extras, plus saying a kind word about the Acer Aspire One).  ^^

One is an XP system -- curiously housed in a Shuttle XPC similar to my beloved KPC (only older and slightly bigger/fatter/chunkier).  That one's pretty standard fare, and only suffered from the usual malware.

The other much OLDER Dell-from-the-heyday, however, runs nothing more and nothing less than 2K-san!!!!!  @v@

But that one has a shotload of virus-related and performance problems with the Windows install.  And given all the blue screens, memory freezes in Linux, trouble booting up LiveCDs, random unusual beeping sounds at startup, more beeping sounds caused by improperly shifting the keyboard/mouse plugs, complete display wipeouts (also followed by beepings) with the VGA connector, AND just the overall sorry state of the machine (banged up and dustier than moleasses)....

...I suspect severe motherboard problems.  ^^;
And given the needs of the young would-be users (this thing has no DVD-drive, no USB 2 ports, and an unusual chassis that doesn't fit standard components), this is one of the few instances I'll ever give in and recommend buying a new system.  A shuttle KPC like mine, or even an Aspire, would cost WAY less than what it could take to buy the components to fix this thing, and offer them all the perks of a modern system.  

They're definitely not the kind to be content with just putting Puppy Linux on this thing, and I ain't volunteering to work miracles.  -v-;

[IanDanKilmaster]

Well, Piggy-senpai, with your newly adopted accent and your love of freedom, you would've made a great Kennedy (couldn't resist, JFK's my favorite president).

I start telling my friend about my recent computer problems, and I go into a rather heated diatribe about the screwiness of M$ .NET framework, not to mention those updates. Well, a potential buyer...a rather normal, plaid-shirt wearing, boot-donning, rural, forest-dwelling type... overhears this.
"Having problems with Vista?" he asks.
"Seesh! No, I use XP, I'd never get near Vista."
"Good. I just got a computer running Vista," he says wistfully. His doubtful head shake is worth a thousand words.
"Yeah, my next computer will probably be a Mac." I reply.
Now here comes the great part. His enthusiastic reply? "I like Linux the best. Open source is the way to go!"

I just wish there were more people like that in my rural area.  I mean, I don't think it gets much more rural than in a small southern town (or in my case, in between small southern towns).  I'd preach Linux more around here, but most of the people I know are too scared to have to learn about their computers.  Right now, I just have to settle for peddling FOSS (I just recently convinced my father to install OpenOffice since his Media Center XP comp didn't have M$Office pre-installed).  Thankfully, these people are also scared of Vista (which is justifiable, I can give them the facts for that).

BTW, is anyone here using Enlightenment 17?  I'm using it for my default desktop environment with Ubuntu, and I have to say, for a beta, it's great.  There are a few options that don't quite work yet and it can sometimes be a little touchy (I just had an issue with the CD drive and desktop icons, but it was easily resolved), but it is gorgeous.  If you use Entrance (the login manager for Enlightenment, which is equally gorgeous) you'll save loads of RAM compared to other login managers.  I forgot to mention that Enlightenment itself is light on memory as well (which is awesome when you consider it offers KDE-like effects).

[C-Chan]

Well, Piggy-senpai, with your newly adopted accent and your love of freedom, you would've made a great Kennedy.  

Fufufu!  It's not too late!  ^____^

*waves out Executive Order 11110 proudly*

*gets rifle trained to his head*

*quickly puts the papers back into his wallet*

On second thought, maybe I'll just stick to posing for the US half dollar.  ^^;

I just wish there were more people like that in my rural area. I mean, I don't think it gets much more rural than in a small southern town (or in my case, in between small southern towns). I'd preach Linux more around here, but most of the people I know are too scared to have to learn about their computers. Right now, I just have to settle for peddling FOSS (I just recently convinced my father to install OpenOffice since his Media Center XP comp didn't have M$Office pre-installed). Thankfully, these people are also scared of Vista (which is justifiable, I can give them the facts for that).

I still know many people who don't have computers at all, but the ones who do usually follow the same thought pattern as your neighbors, Ian-san.  ^__^
Bella-hime, though, might as well be living in Norway.  ^^

BTW, is anyone here using Enlightenment 17? I'm using it for my default desktop environment with Ubuntu, and I have to say, for a beta, it's great. There are a few options that don't quite work yet and it can sometimes be a little touchy (I just had an issue with the CD drive and desktop icons, but it was easily resolved), but it is gorgeous. If you use Entrance (the login manager for Enlightenment, which is equally gorgeous) you'll save loads of RAM compared to other login managers. I forgot to mention that Enlightenment itself is light on memory as well (which is awesome when you consider it offers KDE-like effects).

I've used Elive (what I consider the best E17-centric distro of all) and the old gOS (before they went to Gnome, and now to LXDE).  Indeed I LOVED them, and espoused the virtues of using (well, at least Elive) on very old machines (at the time an old Gateway that gave trouble to nearly all my systems, including display problems with Puppy-chan).

However, for some odd reason, I always end up gravitating back to KDE-based systems....  ''
Probably cause, as you say, it's still a tad incomplete -- even if what exists now is superb.