Linux

[Bella]

Although it would be nice if you bought yourself a nice 1 gig USB stick,... nowadays you can probably get one for $18 USD. ^___^

I really should have one...I guess the only reason I don't is because my laptop, ironically, doesn't travel far from her desk and external HD.

The *Buntus are usually made for various architectures,... you might've thought that Xubuntu was 64-bit because I use it on my AMD64, but otherwise I used to have a 32-bit version installed in my machine. ^^

I didn't know that....

If Zenwalk is also a LiveCD, it's only natural that it demands 128MB cause all LiveCDs need 128 megs. ^^'
(To install a whole OS on RAMdisk requires at least that much.)
Remember, Puppy ALSO requires at least 128 megs for its LiveCD,.. but since you created that nice little partition, you no longer have anything to fear. ^___^

Well,... maybe those kernel panics.....
There is a reason, after all, why no one "advises" you use swap to prop up a LiveCD -- guess that's just a small reminder that hard drive swap is not exactly a 100% replacement for real RAM. ^^;
For your purposes, though, I guess an 80% replacement will do. -v-

Slackware-based stuff MIGHT be a bit tricky to work with, but then it's one of the best for old hardware. And besides, you'll never know if you don't try. ^v^

From what I've been reading, Zenwalk does sound like it could work fairly well...as you said, it may be tricky, but it's not like I'll be investing money in something I can't use I'm very exploratory so maybe I'll try it.

I guess that's another good thing about Linux. With Windows, Mac, etc, you'd better be sure you like the OS before buying the OS/computer. With Linux, you're (literally) free to try it, and if you don't like a certain distro, boohoo. At the most it'll cost a CDR and a little time.

And that's sort of an accurate description of SAM Linux, but then that's a good thing. ^__^
Trust me, if you can get something as wonderful as PCLinuxOS working on old hardware, you'd cry tears of joy as well. It really is beautiful and snappy to boot! ^.^

But don't take my word for it,.. you're not the only one to ask about it.... ^___^

http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=58&topic=21057.0

I'd be happy with getting SAM to run. KDE is pretty and all, but I have to admit I like the look of Xfce...plus it'd probably be faster...

Originally I was thinking of something similar, where Hacchan would be hogging all the food while Puppy (w/ wagging tail) was eagerly waiting for at least a tiny morsel. A reference to Puppy not being permitted to use up even a little bit of hard drive space. ^___^

That's a pretty good idea

BTW, this is something you may want to try once you're really comfortable modifying stuff, but did you know that you can install Puppy alongside Windows 98?

The concept is simple,... Puppy-chan just installs the same files it uses on the LiveCD onto the hard drive, so whenever you boot to Puppy, it just decompresses itself as if it were running on a CD (but naturally since it's on HD, it's a bit faster).

Alternatively, you can get the custom-built Windows 98 Puppy that prepares a more convenient set-up for you....

http://www.puppylinux.org/user/downloads.php?cat_id=3

...unfortunately, though, it's only version 1.07, and besides it kinda defeats the purpose of not having to go into Hacchan (the other method is a lot more like the regular LiveCD). ^^'

Hmmm...maybe...but I don't think I'll be doing anything permanent for awhile...

I guess the only thing that peeves me is that there's no standby mode or similar....or is that unavailable because standby would somehow mess up the liveCD?

[Bella]

Just for the heck of it, I gave Zenwalk a try.
Good points: Great selection of software; the Mozilla suite, GIMP, and Abiword to name a few.
Xfce is very pretty! Quite alien from what I'm used to with Puppy's ROX or Windows, but I like the look a lot more. Xfce even caught the eye of a Windows-centric friend who though it was pretty awesome
Not as difficult as I thought it might be, either.
Not that slow....more on that later, though.

Bad points:
The startup is SO  S-L-O-W. I mean, I could eat lunch in the time it takes for Zenwalk to start, whereas Puppy leaps into action in mere minutes.
Not as fast as Puppy. I'd say probably half as fast.
A little more difficult then Puppy....but as I said before, not half as bad as I might have expected from a Slackware based OS.

[Tsubashi]

Fun! I am actually in the middle of downloading Zenwalk, so I could take it on a test run! ^__^
What a coinky-dink!

Xfce has been my favorite for a while now, so I'm happy you liked it!

Anyways, I'll let you guys know my impressions once it's all done!

[C-Chan]

Yo Bella-san!  ^v^
I'm back....  ^__^

Yeah, when you go into stand-by, your writing the temporary state of your computer into RAM.  Kinda hard to do when the entire OS is already using up all the RAM..... ^^'
Besides, ACPI functions are still not 100% perfect in Linux, apparently because the Linux kernel writers don't LIKE Standby and Hibernate functions as they are now.

Apparently what us commoners have grown to think of as normal (such as defragging your hard drive) are in fact just popularized bad habits (and often poorly-executed ones at that (leers at M$).... T___T

I've heard that a more secure "standby" like mode well be developed in the future,... till then, advanced power functions are available only in distros that wish to support that (the *Buntus for instance, PCLinuxOS to some extent).

I'd be happy with getting SAM to run. KDE is pretty and all, but I have to admit I like the look of Xfce...plus it'd probably be faster...

The only gripe I have with XFCE is that its primary file manager (Thunar) and its desktop are pretty limiting in what they allow you to do on them.  For example, editing the "start" menu is a Right-Click affair in KDE, but a trip to /usr/share/applications folder in root mode in XFCE.  

Not really an issue if you do that kind of stuff frequently, or if you just practice that for a while, but just so you know that speed and agility comes at a cost.  It's still VERY well hidden in SAM Linux (and if you can get it to work, it's light years ahead of Puppy-chan in terms of presentation).

From what I've been reading, Zenwalk does sound like it could work fairly well...as you said, it may be tricky, but it's not like I'll be investing money in something I can't use  I'm very exploratory so maybe I'll try it.

I guess that's another good thing about Linux. With Windows, Mac, etc, you'd better be sure you like the OS before buying the OS/computer. With Linux, you're (literally) free to try it, and if you don't like a certain distro, boohoo. At the most it'll cost a CDR and a little time.

Indeed.  ^___^
A lot of people who loved OpenSUSE, but felt betrayed after their shady deal with M$, find it easy to just move to Fedora or *Buntu or the like.  ^v^

I really should have one...I guess the only reason I don't is because my laptop, ironically, doesn't travel far from her desk and external HD.

Fufu,.. well it's still fairly useful for other things besides home use.  ^.^
I still remember when my old work desktop's LAN card died, and I used my trusty stick to shuttle any files I still had on my C:\ drive to an unused system.  Wasn't really necessary since they grafted the HD to a working system, but it still made me feel secure and stuff (instant business-continuity without the hair-pulling).  ^___^

==========

In any event, while I was writing this you were trying out Zenwalk i see.  (or youze two, anyway).

Gimme one sec....  ^.^

Added after 6 minutes:

Fufufu.... I did say that Puppy-chan was fast, didn't I?  ^____^
Remember you are running a LiveCD with 64megs of RAM and swap, so its a given performance will suffer.  XFCE, despite being light, is still comparatively heavier than Puppy's JWM, or some of the other better-known light windows managers, such as IceWM or FluxBox.  

Still, if you can get it more-or-less operable, at least we know you'll be able to run SAM Linux without any problems (SAM and PCLinuxOS are faster than your average distros, so it MIGHT be possible that SAM might be slightly snappier than Zenwalk).  

Should also reiterate that your performance will improve A LOT if you have those systems installed on your HD (It's slow cause it's busy jamming all that stuff into RAM).  ^___^

So,.......................... like..................... did you figure out what's in that mystery 6 GB of space on your hard drive?  
Cause that space could be put to excellent use making a dual-boot, or triple-boot system.... ^v^

Added after 11 minutes:

Incidentally, unless you read the Members Intro, this weekend I messed around with a computer that JUST MIGHT BE OLDER than yours....  ^___^

A Gateway FlexATXSTC Bro Essential circa 2000, running an Intel Celeron 677mhz processor with 64MB of RAM, no ethernet card, no graphics card  and a heavily worm-infected Windows ME installation that took 20 minutes to boot-uo). ^.^
(But at least there are USB ports everywhere, and a sweet 20GB hard drive that I swapped for an 8GB HD I had on a faster computer).  The specs are similar to the ones you gave me, but the fact that it's a late-90's GATEWAY makes mine officially 10x worse than yours.  ^.^

Even so, I still got Puppy LiveCD working (and apparently it doesn't mind working with 64megs of RAM initially, but I still created the Swap partition ASAP anyway).  ^^
It works like a charm, except that Puppy (and it says it) has trouble with the Intel video chipset, so I can only get either a cramped 640x480 in 16-bit color, or a more spacious 800x600 with only 4 COLORS!  @o@

I know it's a Puppy thing however, since Knoppix had no trouble giving me a 1024 x 768 beauty of a desktop (too bad KDE was way too heavy for that RAM base,... fufu,... though I will be trying its younger sister Feather Linux thanks to its success...).  ^____^
When I have the time (and my small-profile ethernet card + extra SDRAM arrives), I'll hit the Puppy forums to see if I can get some drivers or something.  ^.^

Incidentally, boot-up and operation with Puppy Linux HD installation is so fast, it might as well be installed on an Intel Core Duo!   ^________^

I w00f you, Puppy-chan!!!  ^v^

[Tsubashi]

I don't have much time, but I did promise! ^__^
I'm accessing now from Zenwalk on my old compaq! Not a bad distro, and I can attest that it's boot up is significantly shortened with enough RAM.

I'll list my initial reaction later. Unfortunately, I've pressing business to attend to right now.

Added after 42 minutes:

Okay, maybe it wasn't such pressing business after all. Not my fault if clients don't show up, right?

Anyways, while I'm waiting I'll go through my impressions.
Firstly, looks. I've always liked Xfce, but the zenwalk defaults were particularly Mac reminiscent, especially in comparison to Win 2k running next to me. Twas the fist assumption of my colleague after bootup.
Speaking of bootup, it did take longer than I expected, but thats probably due to fact I usually test new OSes on my Core2Duo. I was grateful for the verbosity of the boot sequence, because I did run into a few errors. Those resolved quickly though and all is well.
Now I just need to modify the windows so that the close buttons are on the left ^__^

Added after 2 minutes:

Oh! I was also wondering: Does anyone have any idea how to make Windows boot up verbosely? Is it even possible?
I have been trying to figure that out for a while now! ^^'

[C-Chan]

Anyways, while I'm waiting I'll go through my impressions.
Firstly, looks. I've always liked Xfce, but the zenwalk defaults were particularly Mac reminiscent, especially in comparison to Win 2k running next to me. Twas the fist assumption of my colleague after bootup.
Speaking of bootup, it did take longer than I expected, but thats probably due to fact I usually test new OSes on my Core2Duo. I was grateful for the verbosity of the boot sequence, because I did run into a few errors. Those resolved quickly though and all is well.
Now I just need to modify the windows so that the close buttons are on the left ^__^

I reckon I should give that distro a look too (the logo's a dolphin if I recall....).  -v-

BTW, modifying Windows theme is another one of those things that's stupidly simple in KDE (where switching buttons to the left is a one-click affair), but if I recall needs some searching in XFCE.  That does, however, make it a dream system for people who love tinkering at the very source.  ^.^
(Or at least aren't diehard-enough to demand Fluxbox, or even just BASH.... -v-')

Oh! I was also wondering: Does anyone have any idea how to make Windows boot up verbosely? Is it even possible?
I have been trying to figure that out for a while now! ^^'

Waaaaaaah! The great Tsubashi-dono needs technical assistance,... who would've thunk it?!  '0'
Next thing you know, I'll be asking for help with Inkscape...... ^___^

In any case, a little plagiarism off M$ website to get my previously squandered money's worth.....  -v-

If you are using a stand-alone computer or if you want to enable verbose status messages on only one computer, follow these steps:

1. Click Start, and then click Run.
2. In the Open box, type gpedit.msc, and then click OK.
3. Expand Computer Configuration, expand Administrative Templates, and then click System.
4. In the right pane, double-click Verbose vs normal status messages.  
5. Click Enabled, and then click OK.
6. Close Group Policy Object Editor, click OK, and then quit Active Directory Users and Computers.

Note Windows ignores this setting if the Remove Boot / Shutdown / Logon / Logoff status messages setting is turned on.

Can't really test it at work, but maybe that'll do it.  Then again, this is assuming the Administrative Tools are relatively untouched in their transition from 2K to XP.  -.-

[Tsubashi]

BTW, modifying Windows theme is another one of those things that's stupidly simple in KDE (where switching buttons to the left is a one-click affair), but if I recall needs some searching in XFCE.

Meh, depends on your familiarity with the window manager. I'm not sure if there is a graphical way to do it, but it is not too hard otherwise. See? I'm already done with it!

That does, however, make it a dream system for people who love tinkering at the very source. ^.^

True, that is. A lot, it explains ^___^

Waaaaaaah! The great Tsubashi-dono needs technical assistance,... who would've thunk it?! '0'

Forgive me. ^__^
It is a windoze thing

Can't really test it at work, but maybe that'll do it. Then again, this is assuming the Administrative Tools are relatively untouched in their transition from 2K to XP. -.-

That is okay, I've only 2k-chan left on any of mine.
*Goes and Tries*
.
.
.
That is it?!? LAME!
They put more word under "Windows is starting up"
Not exactly a verbose startup IMO

Added after 6 minutes:

Like so:

[C-Chan]

HAHA!!  Guess it's a closed-source thing.....  ^___^

Bear in mind, though, that if you do boot into Safe Mode via Command Prompt (assuming 2K offers that), then you will get a DOS-like startup loading all critical drivers andthe like.

Then again, it's not like you'd actually work in Safe Mode all the time.  -.-'

Added after 46 seconds:

M.... M...... "MUP"?  ^_______^;

[Bella]

Yeah, when you go into stand-by, your writing the temporary state of your computer into RAM. Kinda hard to do when the entire OS is already using up all the RAM..... ^^'
Besides, ACPI functions are still not 100% perfect in Linux, apparently because the Linux kernel writers don't LIKE Standby and Hibernate functions as they are now.

Apparently what us commoners have grown to think of as normal (such as defragging your hard drive) are in fact just popularized bad habits (and often poorly-executed ones at that (leers at M$).... T___T

I've heard that a more secure "standby" like mode well be developed in the future,... till then, advanced power functions are available only in distros that wish to support that (the *Buntus for instance, PCLinuxOS to some extent).

I figured it was something like that...

So,.......................... like..................... did you figure out what's in that mystery 6 GB of space on your hard drive?
Cause that space could be put to excellent use making a dual-boot, or triple-boot system.... ^v^

Not yet : \

Incidentally, unless you read the Members Intro, this weekend I messed around with a computer that JUST MIGHT BE OLDER than yours.... ^___^

A Gateway FlexATXSTC Bro Essential circa 2000, running an Intel Celeron 677mhz processor with 64MB of RAM, no ethernet card, no graphics card and a heavily worm-infected Windows ME installation that took 20 minutes to boot-uo). ^.^
(But at least there are USB ports everywhere, and a sweet 20GB hard drive that I swapped for an 8GB HD I had on a faster computer). The specs are similar to the ones you gave me, but the fact that it's a late-90's GATEWAY makes mine officially 10x worse than yours. ^.^

Even so, I still got Puppy LiveCD working (and apparently it doesn't mind working with 64megs of RAM initially, but I still created the Swap partition ASAP anyway). ^^
It works like a charm, except that Puppy (and it says it) has trouble with the Intel video chipset, so I can only get either a cramped 640x480 in 16-bit color, or a more spacious 800x600 with only 4 COLORS! @o@

I know it's a Puppy thing however, since Knoppix had no trouble giving me a 1024 x 768 beauty of a desktop (too bad KDE was way too heavy for that RAM base,... fufu,... though I will be trying its younger sister Feather Linux thanks to its success...). ^____^
When I have the time (and my small-profile ethernet card + extra SDRAM arrives), I'll hit the Puppy forums to see if I can get some drivers or something. ^.^

Incidentally, boot-up and operation with Puppy Linux HD installation is so fast, it might as well be installed on an Intel Core Duo! ^________^

I w00f you, Puppy-chan!!! ^v^

HaPup is from 1998. So yours is newer than mine. Good luck, though!

[Shateiel]

Hurray! It worked. I've got one running DamnSmallLinux and one running Xubuntu. They're working wonderfully despite the horrific hardware defects. All of your friendly proddings were exactly what I needed to finally make the switch. I'll tell you if I come upon any problems or have any questions.

[C-Chan]

*audience applauds*

YAY!!! Thank you Shatelel for trying out a Linux distros today.  ^___^
Not only are you helping the community at large, but in breathing new life to new hardware, you're also doing your part to put a stop to eWaste.  ^v^

Here's your reward....



...sorry for the unrelated theme, but I have a lot of leftover Puppy Linux celebration pics that I have to use up.  ^___^'

If you have additional questions, please let me know.  I'm using Xubuntu as we speak and have access to DSL, so I can probably help out regularly.  ^^

And Bella-san,... no fair having an older yet better system.  ^___^
In fairness, though, this crappy Gateway can AT LEAST boot from CD-ROM.  ^.^

[Tsubashi]

Yay, Shateiel-san! That seem to go over with relatively few hiccups, ne?
Now, if I can just convince Iria not to buy Vista ^__^;

M.... M...... "MUP"? ^_______^;

Multiple UNC Provider. UNC referring to the "Universal Naming Convention", which identifies shares. MUP is a Windows service which locates UNC resources. Go figure ^__^

[C-Chan]

Yay, Shateiel-san! That seem to go over with relatively few hiccups, ne?
Now, if I can just convince Iria not to buy Vista ^__^;

I've got the perfect solution!  ^v^

a) Dig up a Dell XPS laptop.

b) Install Windows XP SP1 or barring that any KDE Linux.

c) Install either that Vista theme that Neiji-san uses in his XP, or one of the many Vista themes created for KDE.

d) Program special applets that make either system crash, freeze or issue creepy WGA warnings every once in a while.

e) Make sure to state its a Home Edition, hence no Aero.

There, Iria wouldn't be able to tell the difference, and who could say no to a free laptop...?  ^v^

Multiple UNC Provider. UNC referring to the "Universal Naming Convention", which identifies shares. MUP is a Windows service which locates UNC resources. Go figure ^__^

Believe me, I'm trying to figure it out.... ^.^

*figure*

*figure*

.
.
.

*figure*

.
.
.

*brains lights on fire*

Oh boy.... @v@;

[Shateiel]

Hahaha, you're welcome. It works pretty well and I'm happy enough with it. Works smoothly and nicely, its like they've become brand new computers.^^

And thank you for the support offers. I'll probably need assistance eventually seeing as its a very different experience.

[C-Chan]

Roger that!  ^___^

Also, let me know if further down the line you want to test a modern distros out on a modern system.  I can easily hook you up with a nice one. ^>^

Nowadays you can do so entirely off a LiveCD, without any hard drive installation.  ^__^

*trots off to play with "new" ancient Gateway Essential*