More IBM-tans

[Bella]

@Stew: (Potentially) Killer computers and/or control systems are always relevant to my interests. >:V

Those sound clips were... weird. Actually, I find the entire numbers station concept amazingly strange. And a little frustrating. YOU NUMBERS STATIONS ARE SO CRYPTIC CAN'T YOU GIVE US A LITTLE MORE INFO PLZ? :<

On the wiki article, it was mentioned that UVB-76 might be connected in some way to Dead Hand; out of curiosity, have you heard any theories about what their connection might be?

@ Kari: I KNOW ISN'T IS AWWWWWWESOME?! SCARY BUT AWWWWWWWESOME!

Nope, the story you're thinking of is Stewart's.

A little bit of HAL, but more like Skynet. Mainly because HAL's murderous capabilities were limited to Discovery, while Skynet was earth-based and had an entire nuclear arsenal to play with... okay, just the fact that we're comparing fictional homicidal computers to (potentially) existant control systems is a bit frightening. D:

[Chocofreak13]

scary, scaaarrry russians.

speking of which, what ever happened to vae?

[NejinOniwa]

Off she went with tsu-tan, I suppose.

Also, russians may be scary, but they make fuckmahelling EPIC TIER music.

[Chocofreak13]

and are just awesomely badass. GO TEAM SIBERIA

[NejinOniwa]

I'm starting to seriously like Mertvaya Ruka here. I'll be doing this, I think...

[Chocofreak13]

any new ibms? huh, i should stop being lazy and draw those ones i promised. (when things are less turbulent)
thanks for being so patient.

[Bella]

I'm starting to seriously like Mertvaya Ruka here. I'll be doing this, I think...

Doing this? Do you mean you'll help with her design or is this going to end up being discussed in the "who would you sleep with" thread? >XD

No new IBMs, but now that we've broken the programming language-tan taboo I wanna make a MUMPS-tan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUMPS

[NejinOniwa]

Doing this? Do you mean you'll help with her design or is this going to end up being discussed in the "who would you sleep with" thread? >XD

It's a machination of war on its greatest degree. Fits like a glove, no? Design is important, after all (even more so, in the case of this ending up in that thread, lol).

Also, I'm not quite sure, but we haven't produced any -tans for either of the Zuse computers, have we? That fellow built a serious shitload of them...including the first turing-complete computer (not counting Analytical, since it wasn't built), Z3. We haven't done any of those, have we?

[Aurora Borealis]

I have a lot to catch up on, but here's Digi-Comp-tan!

[stewartsage]

Aaaaah!

DigiComp is adorable!  Superior work Aurora-hime.

[NejinOniwa]

I'm researching the stuff about Mertvaya Ruka, and one very important interview line strikes me as very, very crucial when it comes to the purpose and thought behind the semi-automatic design of the system:

Now, the Soviets had once thought about creating a fully automatic system. Sort of a machine, a doomsday machine, that would launch without any human action at all. When they drew that blueprint up and looked at it, they thought, you know, this is absolutely crazy.

Looking at Bella Labs' proposal - which isn't at all off-line in current thoughtstreams, but very non-aligned with those of the cold war - this is one thing I find important, and quite ignored. The system's design was created with such diligence in mind, so I'd imagine her more of a restrained, collected person - albeit surely one very purpose-focused so - and seeing as she (probably) is still active and receiving support, I would most definitely not cross her off as mindbroken. After all, she is the one trusted with a most important (albeit perhaps not as important as then) task of the nation's defense - hardly would one allow such an asset to fall into mental oblivion. She might not be a pampered child, but I'd definitely put her in somewhat good shoes.

As for other things:

-Missing her left hand, replaced with a hook (need I explain?)

I'm more for her actually HAVING a dead hand. Rigor mortis invoked, perhaps slightly rotten, even. Somewhat more troublesome to design, perhaps, but effect is important. Hook hand=Cut-off hand, not a dead one.

-Wanted to be deployed at all times, angry over her human creator's lack of trust in her (the system would only be turned on "in cases of emergency")

I'd rather interpret the semi-auto functions as extreme trust in her operators; level-headed at all times, she would expect her human operators to be the same, and follow through with their decisions. For all the hotheads and wackos in the OS-tan league, we need someone who actually seems like they're deserving of their position, no?
Also, heavy sleeper. The exact wording is semi-dormant (with, I'd suppose, regular checkups and testings), so perhaps some characteristic of a bear could be chromed onto her...that, with the her being Russian and all, seems to fit pretty well.

-Reclusive, secretive about her existence (US was never told that Dead Hand existed -- many in the Soviet military didn't know either. Seems illogical, given its destructive capabilities would've deterred an American attack)

Quite so. This is one thing we could extrapolate on; as she's never been quite official at any point, if she's ever out of her bunker people could go like, "Who's that?" or the like.

-Paranoid about the Americans -- or Soviets-- killing her. Spent most of her time in an isolated bunker because of it

I wouldn't have this element included at all, frankly. She might've had some anguish about the cold war ending, seeing as she possibly could've been seen as out-of-place in a world without it, but her new caretakers took her in and treated her well, so she settled in with time (not that it was all that different for her, really). One thing I would include is that she would command extreme respect among the Kremlin and Rus/Soviet hierarchs (and techno-squads) due to the entire "relied on for determining whether to launch dem nukes and ENDING DEM WORLDS" thing and whatnot, and thus get extremely confused/amused whenever confronting someone not familiar with her and thus not treating her like she's used to - much like the "secret/runaway ojou-sama" plot setting or whatnot of various animu/mango.

In other words; My vision of Mertvaya Ruka is more of a cool, logical type of person, with various elements of ladylikeness and technobabble thrown in.
While "I'LLNUKEUYASONOVABITCHKOVYANKEE" might be fun the few first times you use it, one will eventually be forced to re-develop, re-purpose or scrap such a one-type character. I am for more looking at the forethoughts and results of the machine, not the "Doomsday Machine" tag hovering over its head like an evil ward. It seems like a more proper setting, as well as a better use of such high-potential material as the world's (most likely) only doomsday system-tan.

[Bella]

Looking at Bella Labs' proposal - which isn't at all off-line in current thoughtstreams, but very non-aligned with those of the cold war - this is one thing I find important, and quite ignored. The system's design was created with such diligence in mind, so I'd imagine her more of a restrained, collected person - albeit surely one very purpose-focused so - and seeing as she (probably) is still active and receiving support, I would most definitely not cross her off as mindbroken. After all, she is the one trusted with a most important (albeit perhaps not as important as then) task of the nation's defense - hardly would one allow such an asset to fall into mental oblivion. She might not be a pampered child, but I'd definitely put her in somewhat good shoes.

Restrained in action, surely. Otherwise, we'd all be glowing a radioactive green right now (jk...?) But I think making her a restrained person -- personality-wise-- would be a bit of a cop-out. Sure, it was a system with various fail-safes to keep it from malfunctioning and accidentally causing WWIII, but it was still a "doomsday machine"... that's not a very rational thing, period.

To put it another way, a person can be completely batshit -- erratic, megalomaniacal, prone to violent thoughts and/or fantasies, etc, etc -- but never, EVER, act on her disturbed thoughts. That wouldn't make her any less unnerving to be around though, simply knowing that she COULD "push the button" someday and contains within her the power to destroy worlds.

I'm more for her actually HAVING a dead hand. Rigor mortis invoked, perhaps slightly rotten, even. Somewhat more troublesome to design, perhaps, but effect is important. Hook hand=Cut-off hand, not a dead one.

Somebody put on a horcrux ring! (lol finally got a chance to throw a Harry Potter ref out there).

I considered this one. Well, actually, more like a badly atrophied hand, shriveled and unusable. Sorta rejected the thought because of the design difficultly it posed, but I might have to reconsider it.

I'd rather interpret the semi-auto functions as extreme trust in her operators; level-headed at all times, she would expect her human operators to be the same, and follow through with their decisions. For all the hotheads and wackos in the OS-tan league, we need someone who actually seems like they're deserving of their position, no?

Meet you half way -- she trusts her operators extremely, but to the point of emotional dependency on them. Perhaps a twofold reason for this... for one, she knows she's hobbled w/o the humans and needs them to operate, and secondly, she realises that if anything SHOULD go down, she'll be spending eternity with her operators in a bunker. Nobody wants to be trapped with enemies, y/n?

Honestly, level-headed characters bore me... especially with a character who has SO much craziness potential. I mean...
SOVIET.
RUSSIAN.
DOOMSDAY MACHINE.
NUCLEAR ARSENAL.
REFERENCES TO TERMINATOR AND DR. STRANGELOVE AND OTHER MOVIES WITH DOOMSDAY MACHINES/EVIL COMPUTERS.

I mean, this isn't quite your run-of-the-mill C&C computer system...

Also, heavy sleeper. The exact wording is semi-dormant (with, I'd suppose, regular checkups and testings), so perhaps some characteristic of a bear could be chromed onto her...that, with the her being Russian and all, seems to fit pretty well.

Agreed, this also fits in with her "dead" motif and near-death appearance. Some might wonder if they'll be able to wake her again...

Quite so. This is one thing we could extrapolate on; as she's never been quite official at any point, if she's ever out of her bunker people could go like, "Who's that?" or the like.

True, true, few have ever seen her (there's no info about the exact workings of the system, either, so this fits perfectly).

I wouldn't have this element included at all, frankly. She might've had some anguish about the cold war ending, seeing as she possibly could've been seen as out-of-place in a world without it, but her new caretakers took her in and treated her well, so she settled in with time (not that it was all that different for her, really). One thing I would include is that she would command extreme respect among the Kremlin and Rus/Soviet hierarchs (and techno-squads) due to the entire "relied on for determining whether to launch dem nukes and ENDING DEM WORLDS" thing and whatnot, and thus get extremely confused/amused whenever confronting someone not familiar with her and thus not treating her like she's used to - much like the "secret/runaway ojou-sama" plot setting or whatnot of various animu/mango.

Okay, maybe paranoia's a strong word... especially for a person who lives in such a secure place, surrounded by so many protectors and with almost no direct threats to her life (she had to be, in order to carry out her mission should Russia have been attacked). So perhaps she'd be confident with her safety to the point of SMUGNESS. But I can't help but think she'd be a little suspicious of the happenings in the above-ground world... maybe not a rational reason for this, more of a side-effect from being cut off from society for most of her life.

Anguish about the Cold War ending - yes.
Extreme respect - for sure.
Treated well, perhaps to the point of spoiledness - likely. She had to be kept alive, at least moderately happy and healthy, the mission was too important to endanger her.

In other words; My vision of Mertvaya Ruka is more of a cool, logical type of person, with various elements of ladylikeness and technobabble thrown in.
While "I'LLNUKEUYASONOVABITCHKOVYANKEE" might be fun the few first times you use it, one will eventually be forced to re-develop, re-purpose or scrap such a one-type character. I am for more looking at the forethoughts and results of the machine, not the "Doomsday Machine" tag hovering over its head like an evil ward. It seems like a more proper setting, as well as a better use of such high-potential material as the world's (most likely) only doomsday system-tan.

Again, meet you halfway...

After considering your points, I can see Mertvaya-tan as being inwardly rather neurotic, macabre and far too comfortable with EXTREME violence (as in: nuclear war), but cognizant enough to realise the consequences of her actions. Certainly not trigger-happy Jack D. Ripper-type who blindly wants to destroy her enemies -- but she HAS (or HAD) the power to destroy the world and would have if push came to shove. She didn't want to... but she wouldn't have felt particularly bad if she had.

Then again, this is a -tan we're dealing with; many OS-tans have traits that make little sense in relation to their systems. For instance...

-Unix-sama is typically austere and joyless and a former industrialist, while Unix was a grassroots OS, considered radically flexible, fun to work with and free during the time of the early hackers.

-The DEC-tans are a military/militia, while DEC, IRL, was a somewhat unorganised, mom-and-pop sort of company as far as computer corporations go.

-XP-tan is a notorious hog, while XP's actual RAM/HD requirements are rather conservative.

-Mac-tan often depicted as a bomb-weilding beserker, while Macs are popularly depicted as stable, friendly and intuitive.

-Multics-sama and Unix-sama faced off against each other with Multics being defeated; this has absolutely no basis in computer history, since Multics was harmed far worse by competing mainframes than by the rise of the Unix-powered mini.

...on the flip-side, haters often accuse Unix of being difficult, DEC took a very isolationist stance when it came to accepting outside OSes, XP used a lot of system requirements for its day (2001 ;P), Macs are sometimes considered unapproachable and many Multics-advocates blame the downfall of their beloved OS on Unix. We've chosen to utilize these stereotypes to build a more interesting story; because I don't know it'd be half as interesting if Unix-sama was a genki hacker, the DECs were a horde of free-spirited bohemians, or that Multics and Unix-sama's relationship was "a little rough" but completely nonviolent (and possibly even mutually respectful.)

Or to put it another way... sometimes, a single stereotype will become a defining factor for a -tan.

Let's use SAGE-tan as an example. SAGE-tan's defining trait is her current-day frenetic, psychotic personality. But, in Stewart's stories at least, she isn't completely defined by her psychosis, with rather frequent moments of clarity and some more sympathetic traits too. It's not a lack of a single defining trait that makes a good character -- it's not letting the character be DEFINED by this factor that's the trick to making her more than a one-shot caricature.

Of course, writing stories about the character helps -- because you can only get so far, literarily, milking a stereotype before things get boring.

[NejinOniwa]

Honestly, level-headed characters bore me... especially with a character who has SO much craziness potential.

Potential? Yes. Stereotypical?
That's my problem - falling her into the crazy-destroyer-of-worlds stereotype is a bit annoying, really.

Sure, it was a system with various fail-safes to keep it from malfunctioning and accidentally causing WWIII, but it was still a "doomsday machine"... that's not a very rational thing, period.

But it was! In those days, having the ability to cause WWIII was absolutely necessary to avoid actually causing it. Cold war game theory may seem screwed up now, but I assure you, when you're on opposite sides of ideology, the Atlantic, and everything else, you damn right want to be sure that your deterrence is strong enough. And with Reagan in charge (which he was when she was built) even more so. So while her ideas of ending the world etc might make her seem batshit to others, her mind hasn't exactly deteriorated at all seeing as game theory is what runs her logic.

Of course, writing stories about the character helps -- because you can only get so far, literarily, milking a stereotype before things get boring.

And it's a good way of v2-ing as well. What we do need is a definite character design, though. I'll be working on one, but if you want to make one of your own, go ahead, and we'll v2 ourselves out of that as well. As for my design, my starting point will be: Bearskin coat.
EDIT: Interesting point here. The Russian word for bear is Medved, being the base of last names such as...you guessed it. If she indeed has a bear-ish design, she should be on pretty good grounds with the current president, just because. -w-

[NejinOniwa]

NOW THEN
I have drawn up a quick sketchy of my spontaneous design for Mertvaya Ruka-tan. Due to scanner being unavailable and camera having crashed, I'll just take this crappy cellphone photo to show you where I'm heading.
(Will give this some well needed touchup in GIMP, but for the moment, this'll have to do)
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g239/NejinOniwa/OS-Tans/07092010145.jpg

[Bella]

That's my problem - falling her into the crazy-destroyer-of-worlds stereotype is a bit annoying, really.

True. Like I said before (somewhere else, not in that quote you used), I don't think she'd be certifiably insane or anything, but my vision of her is far from totally emotionally together, either.

So she's all there mentally (and thus, competent), but emotionally she's a little... or perhaps a lot... off.

But it was! In those days, having the ability to cause WWIII was absolutely necessary to avoid actually causing it. Cold war game theory may seem screwed up now, but I assure you, when you're on opposite sides of ideology, the Atlantic, and everything else, you damn right want to be sure that your deterrence is strong enough. And with Reagan in charge (which he was when she was built) even more so. So while her ideas of ending the world etc might make her seem batshit to others, her mind hasn't exactly deteriorated at all seeing as game theory is what runs her logic.

I think you've hit on an important point here...

Mertvaya Ruka was built to "cool down all the hotheads", and Mertvaya-tan's personality should follow suit. I get that now.

BUT... there's a difference between being able to cool down hotheads, and being one of these cool-heads yourself. Perhaps, like a heavy-handed father who yells at his children threatening punishment if they don't behave, Mertvaya-tan's method of keeping the peace wasn't particularly peaceable.

Sometimes it takes the threat of unleashing hell to keep people under control -- and I see Mertvaya-tan as having more of a "if you start something with them I will have to end it with HORRIBLE RESULTS"-mindset than a "can't we just talk this out like reasonable adults?"-type.

Also like to point out that I see her as being more VENGEFUL than AGGRESSIVE -- her job was not only to "keep the peace" under threat of nuclear annihilation, but launch a retaliatory strike should her Motherland be attacked.

And it's a good way of v2-ing as well. What we do need is a definite character design, though. I'll be working on one, but if you want to make one of your own, go ahead, and we'll v2 ourselves out of that as well. As for my design, my starting point will be: Bearskin coat.
EDIT: Interesting point here. The Russian word for bear is Medved, being the base of last names such as...you guessed it. If she indeed has a bear-ish design, she should be on pretty good grounds with the current president, just because. -w-

Bearskin overcoat sounds about right. You know me, I make tons of costumes for any given character, so I'm totally flexible there.

Hm, that is interesting...

NOW THEN
I have drawn up a quick sketchy of my spontaneous design for Mertvaya Ruka-tan. Due to scanner being unavailable and camera having crashed, I'll just take this crappy cellphone photo to show you where I'm heading.
(Will give this some well needed touchup in GIMP, but for the moment, this'll have to do)
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g239/NejinOniwa/OS-Tans/07092010145.jpg

You know, this actually meshes almost perfectly with my own ideas for her appearance-- light wavy hair, light eyes, the overcoat and uniform, so I don't think I'll be making many changes to your design when I draw her. Well, might lengthen her uniform coat a bit... as anyone who's seen my military-tans can attest, I DO love going overboard with creative uniforms. -v-