What's your gender?

[IanDanKilmaster]

Geez, someone call the cops, this thread has been raped, murdered, and left by the side of the road >_<.

Nevermind this thread never truly served its intended purpose to begin with, now it's just like Topicless or Member Intro... pointless.

I am a wanna be girl in a guy. I just would like to know what it is like to be the other sex, ya know?

Ladies and Gentleman (and everyone in between), we have a TG fan.

Sora do I want to know what a TG fan is XD

What he means is transgender fan.  Although given your answer, I'm assuming you're just curious about what it would be like to have boobage and vaj... not that you legitimately want to be a woman.

The funny thing is, the thread was started by a transsexual looking for other trans to share her experience with.  Essentially making the same mistake a lot of us do, expecting someone on the internet to identify with her.  Cue the many, many posters (myself included) confusing sexual identity, gender identity, and sexuality - thereby completely missing the point.

Still a woman! Mentally-speaking I consider myself androgynous... Oh yeah, and I consider myself asexual. And possibly aromantic. Not so much of an orientation, as it is a lack of it.

Interesting... I think you make a lot of good point about gender roles.  Really, I'd say the problem lies in our over-reliance on labeling things.  I don't think a label properly conveys all the ideas and mentality that go into the brain sexually.  Keep in mind that the two-gender system is very much a western concept, there are a number of societies that provide for three or more, and I'm still not sure if that's adequate.  Still I'm very much a product of the western culture, and, as such, it's nigh impossible for me to escape the two gender way of thinking.  So I'm genetically a man, identify as male, and find myself very much sexually attracted to femininity.  However, this does not prevent me from being very emotional (men can be just as much a slave to their hormones as any woman), and then attempting to suppress those emotions.

Meh... I'm ranting...

[Bella]

Sorry for adding to the pointlessness of this thread, IDK... but stuff like this interests me to no end. D:

This thread WAS originally designed for people to tell their sex (biological/physical) and gender identity (psychological), but now we're actually discussing some of the whys behind our decisions... is it really worse? Or just a lot random-er?

Now I feel left out for having no complex feelings on gender or sexual identity.  Not to say I have no opinion on the matter, but to be honest sociology's pretty much beyond my comprehension.  Well hell, I'll try my hand.

Maybe it's an anomaly, but I've never felt pressured to act masculine it just happened.  Now atmosphere might have had something to do with that granted, but it's never seemed to me to be much use to try and be someone I'm not.  If that means I'm not that emotional, I'm just not.  Never have been, but it's nothing to do with repression as far as I know.

Saying that though, there's no denying that it's hard to be an effeminate guy or a tomboy.

Eh, sociology has always been a minor interest of mine... a lot of it confuses me, but I still love talking about it.

I don't know if children are often "told" to conform to a certain gender role, rather than it being the result of a lot of subtle socialization (or the atmosphere, as you called it)... seeing how adults and other children behave, being influenced by play, the media, etc. At least early in life... later on there seems to be a lot more direct pressure to fit into the "normal" gender role.

Emotions don't necessarily go hand-in-hand with one's sex or gender identity... there are a lot of masculine-but-emotionally-driven men, and there are feminine-but-unemotional women. Like IDK mentioned, this is something that's determined by biology as well as socialization. I'm a very emotional person but I tend to channel my emotions into other forms other (like art or music) instead of physical displays. As hypocritical as it sounds, I've always felt like showing pain (physical or emotional) somehow makes me come off as "weak"... so I try to avoid it. (This approach leads to some epic rants and meltdowns, though).

But yeah, it's foolish to think that being emotional is feminine, or that certain emotions only belong to one sex. Emotion (or lack of it) is a human thing, a biological thing, although socialization in relation to gender can determine how a person displays these.

Really, I'd say the problem lies in our over-reliance on labeling things. I don't think a label properly conveys all the ideas and mentality that go into the brain sexually. Keep in mind that the two-gender system is very much a western concept, there are a number of societies that provide for three or more, and I'm still not sure if that's adequate. Still I'm very much a product of the western culture, and, as such, it's nigh impossible for me to escape the two gender way of thinking. So I'm genetically a man, identify as male, and find myself very much sexually attracted to femininity. However, this does not prevent me from being very emotional (men can be just as much a slave to their hormones as any woman), and then attempting to suppress those emotions.

That's true... I've always disdained labels, since they never seem to work for, well, labeling people. Socially, politically, spiritually... people should work harder on seeing others for who they are, rather than making generalizations based on ill-fitting descriptions. That's very true, and it's interesting to read about some of the genders that exist in other cultures and their definitions.

Well, it is tough trying to recognize "third genders" when most people around you are stuck in the gender binary... it's like living in the US and trying to use the Metric system. You have your way of measuring things (and yes, it probably makes more sense), but the people around you have a different way-- who's right and who's wrong? (Bad metaphor much?) The only thing I can say to that is it's all a matter of perspective, like a lot of human experience (that's a rant for another time, though).

Thanks for bringing up the biological angle too... humans are a lot more biologically-driven than we care to admit (and probably carrying more evolutionary baggage, psychologically-speaking, than we realize), but yes, I should stop there before I launch into THAT topic. ^^;

But yes, sex, gender, emotions and sexuality are all very complex topics-- and all very distinct, but inextricably linked at the same time.  It's fascinating stuff...

[IanDanKilmaster]

I actually wasn't thinking so much about your post being off-topic, but more about the last two pages which I thought had really killed off the thread for good.  I was hoping to preempt any further desecration of this corpse yukio had resurrected.

You're right that what we're talking about isn't that far from being on-topic, but it might be better if this discussion had it's own thread to properly flourish.  

EDIT: Second thought, I don't know if that's altogether necessary.  Now I'm confused... I'm really interested in this discussion, Bella-chan, but I can't decide if this thread or a new one would be better to discuss it ><;.

[yukio95]

Geez, someone call the cops, this thread has been raped, murdered, and left by the side of the road >_<.

Nevermind this thread never truly served its intended purpose to begin with, now it's just like Topicless or Member Intro... pointless.

I am a wanna be girl in a guy. I just would like to know what it is like to be the other sex, ya know?

Ladies and Gentleman (and everyone in between), we have a TG fan.

Sora do I want to know what a TG fan is XD

What he means is transgender fan.  Although given your answer, I'm assuming you're just curious about what it would be like to have boobage and vaj... not that you legitimately want to be a woman.

The funny thing is, the thread was started by a transsexual looking for other trans to share her experience with.  Essentially making the same mistake a lot of us do, expecting someone on the internet to identify with her.  Cue the many, many posters (myself included) confusing sexual identity, gender identity, and sexuality - thereby completely missing the point.

Still a woman! Mentally-speaking I consider myself androgynous... Oh yeah, and I consider myself asexual. And possibly aromantic. Not so much of an orientation, as it is a lack of it.

Interesting... I think you make a lot of good point about gender roles.  Really, I'd say the problem lies in our over-reliance on labeling things.  I don't think a label properly conveys all the ideas and mentality that go into the brain sexually.  Keep in mind that the two-gender system is very much a western concept, there are a number of societies that provide for three or more, and I'm still not sure if that's adequate.  Still I'm very much a product of the western culture, and, as such, it's nigh impossible for me to escape the two gender way of thinking.  So I'm genetically a man, identify as male, and find myself very much sexually attracted to femininity.  However, this does not prevent me from being very emotional (men can be just as much a slave to their hormones as any woman), and then attempting to suppress those emotions.

Meh... I'm ranting...

No no you have a point.

[Sora]

yukio95, who has a point, me or IanDanKilmaster?

[zjhentohlauedy]

This i why i don't like labels. why can't we just stick to havin really broad labels XD

i mean gender was pretty easy a long time ago, man woman, now we have all kinds of prefix+sexual and it's just confusing! mankind seems to like getting more and more complicated XD

[Red-Machine]

Oh yeah, and I consider myself asexual. And possibly aromantic. Not so much of an orientation, as it is a lack of it.

Well that's no fun...

Kidding!  If you feel like being asexual or aromantic, then that's your descision.  Now I know why you laughed like a raving lunatic when I asked how your love life was... XD

[Chocofreak13]

I'm a very emotional person but I tend to channel my emotions into other forms other (like art or music) instead of physical displays. As hypocritical as it sounds, I've always felt like showing pain (physical or emotional) somehow makes me come off as "weak"... so I try to avoid it. (This approach leads to some epic rants and meltdowns, though).

GET OUTTA MAH HEAD
QUIT STEALIN' MAH THOUGHTS O____O

no, seriously. you sound alot like me. .____. i do my best to internalize most emotion as to not burden other people (however this backfires horribly, and even then i don't do a very good job of it, as most of my friends will tell you that i can have a temper. ^^; )

i am physically female. i do not intend to change this fact. mentally, i show traits of both genders, all the way down to who i'm attracted to (bisexual and proud). most "girly" things disgust me, i hate the colour pink in most forms, and when i have kids, i will buy them barbies AND GI Joes (or X-men), regardless of their gender. i will teach my kids to be themselves, no matter what society tells them.

i like machines, and wrestling (sometimes), and video games, and the occasional violent movie. however, i also like cats, cooking, sewing, and some romance songs (though i end up making fun of some).
most of my ex-boyfriends were effeminate, as i tend to be a little more masculine than most chicks (camo and scratching and burps, oh my! ^^), so if i were to get a girlfriend i'd probably be the "man" in the relationship.

i define "being a man" as being brave, responsible, and having guts(balls) and heart, and passion. which makes me more of a "man" than most guys i know.

[yukio95]

Srry i meant IanDanKilmaster

[Chocofreak13]

what is "gender" anyway? it's more of the mental aspect versus your sex, which is the physical aspect. which means "gender" is created through society and upbringing, in addition to organics.

[Pitkin]

I'm here to agree and disagree on some things. xP

i am physically female. i do not intend to change this fact. mentally, i show traits of both genders, all the way down to who i'm attracted to (bisexual and proud). most "girly" things disgust me, i hate the colour pink in most forms, and when i have kids, i will buy them barbies AND GI Joes (or X-men), regardless of their gender. i will teach my kids to be themselves, no matter what society tells them.

First, what you said about kids is music to my ears. x) I wish more parents would let their children choose what they want to play with instead of deciding it for them. Not to mention teaching them that they're allowed to be themselves, some parents never are able to do that.

However, I must point out that pink has traditionally been seen as men's colour for its flashiness, and in western countries even in the beginning of the 20th century pink was essentially a baby boys' colour. Only after the wars (?) pink has been more related with women or girls for one reason or another, and of course more recently it's become more acceptable for men to wear pink as well again.

i define "being a man" as being brave, responsible, and having guts(balls) and heart, and passion. which makes me more of a "man" than most guys i know.

This part is problematic, because if you define "being a man" all those things, would you define "being a woman" as being cowardly, irresponsible, lacking in guts, heart and passion? That is of course the problem only, if you consider man and woman the opposites, which on its own would be a troubling issue already. x)  

I don't give any other meaning to "being a man" than identifying as one. There are social expectations and biological bases for it certainly, but I'll leave those just there. *places them there*

This i why i don't like labels. why can't we just stick to havin really broad labels XD

i mean gender was pretty easy a long time ago, man woman, now we have all kinds of prefix+sexual and it's just confusing! mankind seems to like getting more and more complicated XD

In fact, gender variance has been present in humans for a very long time, possibly as long as humans themselves: in every corner of the world there are very traditional terms for people who don't necessarily fit their local "gender binary" (if such exists) - Two-Spirits among North American natives, Fa'afines and others among Samoans and many other Polynesian islands, sworn virgins in Balkan, traditional same-sex coupling among a lot of African tribes, and there are many other examples, which are specifically very old and traditional terms, not just "recent inventions".

Also, the suffix "-sexual" refers most of the time to sexuality, and not to gender, and also sexual variance has always existed. Homosexuality, bisexuality (and asexuality) have not only existed always, but are present also in many other species than just humans. There's little doubt that "alternative sexual preferences" have always been around, the only question is how hidden or marginalized they have been kept by the majority.

edit: Of course, there's a shiny new Gender discussion thread for all this kind of talk. x)

[Chocofreak13]

IT'S A PITKIN!

what i mean as "being a man" was general responsibility, i suppose. i look around at all the guye here who consider themselves "men", and i'm unsure if they're fit to be little boys. i'm braver than them, and stronger, and tougher, and i'm not saying that out of pride, i'm saying that they probably couldn't handle what i did and am going through.

[zjhentohlauedy]

Lol.

i dunno i just realllllyy like the Manliness thing XD

[Sora]

Srry i meant IanDanKilmaster

Hint: Use the quote button next time yukio95, otherwise other people have no idea what you're talking about.

[NejinOniwa]

First, what you said about kids is music to my ears. x) I wish more parents would let their children choose what they want to play with instead of deciding it for them. Not to mention teaching them that they're allowed to be themselves, some parents never are able to do that.

Buy them a laptop, and everyone's happy.

That, and we will slowly get ourselves a new type of sexuality to grow into common space - the comp-sexuals...