Linux

[NekOSaka]

I'll have to look into toying around with these, thanks C-Chan, mabey they can even help me get it together. Don't get your hopes too high on the later part though. XP

[C-Chan]

Fufu.... getittogether, getittogether, getittogether, getittogether,....  >v<

That's great!  Cause even if you can't get used to Linux, at least you'll get used to virtual desktop environments (through VirtualBox).  And trust, me that's useful,... I know Windows people that are particularly security-conscious who install a miniature Windows inside a virtualbox to navigate the web.  That way, any viruses they encounter that ruin the system just ruin that virtual hard drive, and not the host system.  ^___^

Many many uses for virtualization....  ^.^

[NejinOniwa]

That's great! Cause even if you can't get used to Linux, at least you'll get used to virtual desktop environments (through VirtualBox). And trust, me that's useful,... I know Windows people that are particularly security-conscious who install a miniature Windows inside a virtualbox to navigate the web. That way, any viruses they encounter that ruin the system just ruin that virtual hard drive, and not the host system. ^___^

Many many uses for virtualization.... ^.^

...or they could just use some Linux distro and not get any viruses at all.

Also, Puppy is nice distro (you can even load it up on a USB drive if you like), but some setups are a bit hellish to go through. The network setup, for example, i simply couldn't take, and gave up halfway through. Might have to do with my network, though, since it all was pretty comprehensible and thorough.

[Bella]

That depends on several factors, mainly what you currently use (operating system-wise and hardware-wise), what you use it for, what would you LIKE to use it for, and perhaps, more importantly, how much are you willing to learn about how computer and computer programs work in general.

Linux, as you may know, is part of the Free and Open Source Software movement, and requires a huge paradigm shift in the way traditional computing is approached -- and as illustrated in this article (and personally vouched by my own similar experience) has the tendency to change a person's outlook on many things:

http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3720506

Case in point, I used to be a very timid Windows user, uninspired and uninterested to look past my horizons, generally scared out of my wits of data loss and dependent on 3rd party apps to take care of me, willing to purchase computers based on how game-friendly its specs were, and not at all apprehensive to using pirated software, even if I hardly ever used it.

After having used Linux and FOSS software for over a year, I feel each and every one of those traits has been reversed entirely, and without as much work, effort or sacrifice as I had thought I would need to endure. Sure, it wasn't always a point-and-click affair (especially when handling new or beta software or distros), but the power to actually do something about it came as a bit of a culture shock at first, but then as a matter of pride once I became more and more adept at fixing things or discovering other solutions I would never have conceived of. Moreover, Linux has evolved to the point where it can cater both to power users and new, point-and-click users -- a good case in point is the popularity of the EeePC and the gPC, which both come prepackaged with user-friendly systems and backed by strong community support.

If you, as a user, use your computer only to check email, chat or browse the internet, or if you're one of those power users that MUST have a server environment at home, then the Linux is actually ideal due to the more enhanced security and the emphasis on net-based solutions. If in addition to that, you also need an office suite, image editing programs, sound editing programs and video editing programs, we can cater to that as well as long as you're willing to learn new applications.

If on the other hand you're a heavy gamer, and also locked into essential but proprietary software such as TurboTax, iTunes, Office 2007, and other applications that have no free equivalent (or legally bar them entirely), then I'm afraid it would be a lot more difficult to make the transition, if only because you would need to establish a dual-boot environment or a virtual desktop environment, or tinker with Wine in order to get that stuff working properly in Linux.

Wow, that article is really great! I can't believe how many of those characteristics sound like me... O__O

Way back when using 98 I was very scared of every move I made, but XP taught me to be quite exploratory and very self-helping (I've never needed professional help, at least on a software level).

And I don't think there's such a thing as "too customizable", I don't fear command lines, I want constant control of my system, I'm not tied down to any proprietary programs (I don't even use PS that much) and don't game, either.

Consider downloading and installing this handy little [free] tool:

http://www.virtualbox.org/

And then go here to pick out a Linux distro that sounds interesting, and just download its ISO file:

http://distrowatch.com/
[look under "Page Hit Ranking", not OSDisc.com]

Or if you want me to pick a nice, small one for you....

ftp://ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/puppylinux/puppy-3.01-seamonkey.iso

Not the prettiest distro around, but packs every program you could possibly need, plus the OS, into a 100MB package, and is still perfectly customizable.

Instructions for using Virtualbox are floating around, but I can provide an overview if you're still interested.

I concur with testing out (or even using, if you have to, like me) a new OS with VirtualBox.

Although, unless your computer is really ancient, I'd say try out Ubuntu first. Puppy is great if you have an old machine, but I've found Ubuntu to be the most polished, effortless and intuitive distro for me (not that I've used many), and not intimidating in the least. It has a great software suite, works great on VirtualBox, and it's quite easy on the eyes

I found Puppy extremely fast, but a bit more difficult to work with...

[C-Chan]

Fufu.... yeah, recommended Puppy cause I don't know Osaka-san's system.  ^^;

We assume so much these days, that sometimes we forget that people may still be on dial-up (in which case, downloading 100MB rather than 700MB is...well.... better.... ^.^; ).
Plus if the machine only has 128MB, that's enough to run Puppy.... but not Virtualbox.  ^______^;

In any event,... we shall wait and see where this takes our friendly, neighborhood NekOsaka.  ^^

[Alfamille]

Oh, and since all things linux go here:
Has anyone installed linux on their iPod before? If so, did you ever have problems with overheating? I had it on my 2nd gen mini for a while without problems, but it was stolen. On my 1st gen nano, however, the back casing heats up noticeably after 10 minutes, and continues to heat up. Any ideas? Not a pressing issue, especially since after an hour or so the temperature stays constant. There seem to be no noticeable defects, but it's just a little odd. ^.^

Y'know this problem is debatable, that if either the iPod Linux (podzilla) software'is the one who's making it overheat or not...

I'm not sure about yours but since it's a first gen iPod maybe you were using an old iPL kernel. no?

...or how bout ever since you've installed iPL, it almost reached the limits of the given size of your iPod Nano that it coincides with the RAM.
If you are playing iDoom on a 2 or 1GB iPod nano of yours, it may be the cause of a certain overclocking...

Although I may have to agree more with C over this, maybe it's the hardware itself. The closest thing I can think of is the backlight of your iPod Nano.

My 4GB nano does get its back hot in the rarest times, but I've never considered this to be an effect of installing iPod linux on it (I actually find the iPod linux faster than its default operating system)

[IanDanKilmaster]

Wow, if the date on the last post is correct, it's been some time since anyone has posted in here.  Of course, I haven't been here in at least a year, so I guess there's been a good many changes that I've missed as well.

Anyway, while it isn't neccessarily Linux-related, I thought I might announce that I'm very interested in learing Python.  I've noticed that a great deal of the programs I use use Python, and based upon other information that I read, Python also seems to be an easy (or at least, easier than most) language to learn.  So, searching ubuntuforums led me to this online tutorial for beginners.  I haven't started yet because I generally prefer to have printed materials before me when I'm learning (and I don't have a printer).  So I still plan on using that tutorial, but it'll be once I've printed the materials using the family computer.  So, my point in posting in here was to ask if anyone here has learned Python themselves, and if so, are there any other materials you would recommend to a beginner like myself?

[C-Chan]

WOW!  Do my eyes deceive me?  @v@

Ian-san!  It's been ages!!  ^__^

Yeah, I haven't posted in this thread much since nearly all my Linux talk is now over in "The Club".  That, and the fact that it "just works" has ensured that I haven't had to answer any troubleshooting questions.  ^__~

Funny you should mention that -- I've retired from my short-lived endeavor as a Linux semi-developer to practice Python programming, as a stepping stone for eventual GUI software writing.  ^___^
Indeed it is EXCEPTIONALLY easy (as both a procedural and object-oriented language), powerful, adaptable, cross-platform, and most important of all... open source.  And it can bind with GTK or QT4 widgets (in addition to a whole slew of independent ones), so you can really make your programs look nice with it.  ^__~

The only drawback is that it is slow compared to some languages like C and C++, but much faster than other OOPs (like Java).  And certainly if you can get used to Python, you're better able to understand others. ^___^  

(the fact that I've dipped my hand in Office VBA, BASH Shell Script, C, and Perl has really helped me understand Python much more easily)

Online tutorials are a good free resource if you use the computer frequently.  On the other hand, if you spend a lot of time offline and/or prefer to do your learning with books, I recommend picking up a copy of Michael Dawson's "Python Programming For the Absolute Beginner".  So far I'm having a blast with this book, as it teaches you the basics through simple game development and lots of humor (which I always say is the best teacher).  ^.^

Any other questions, feel free to stick around and ask.^___^

Added after 9 minutes:

One last thing... don't forget to check out the official Python documentation page -- it also has links to many valuable guides, including some downloadable ones:

http://www.python.org/doc/

[IanDanKilmaster]

Yes senpai, the prodigal returneth... again.  Hopefully, this will be more of a long-term stay.  I never intended to be gone so long to begin with, but that's another story.  I haven't had any major tech issues (you know, the entire reason I would keep coming to this forum, ^__~).  I finally come to realize the main problem with ubuntuforums is a lack of thoughtfully written HowTos (steps skipped, commands not thoroughly explained, etc.), and I currently own two Linux books (one general Linux and one Ubuntu) to compensate for "HowTo" shortcomings.  Anyway, the only real problems I've had in the past year were my exceedingly painful (yet somehow successful) dist-upgrade and the various foul-ups on my Xorg.conf and sources.list files, all of which I've solved.

Yeah, "The Club", I can still remember when I was afraid it would be closed for being possible flamebait.  Kinda funny being around to see it start, take off for awhile and return only to see it has become this big thing.  I guess I'll have to start posting in there from now on.

As far as my interest in Python goes, I plan to start by simply editing scripts for pre-existing programs, but I doesn't fulfill me to simply cut-and-paste commands and such without knowing what the hell I'm doing, you know?  Of course, I do have an interest in making my own programs as well, but all I've got now are ideas and no way to implement them.  Anyway, I was glad to hear that of all people Piggy-senpai was into this as well.  If I haven't made it obvious already, I've come to trust your judgement ^__^.

Anyway, on the subject of learning, I've still yet to learn to use Inkscape.  As I may have said before, math is not my strong suit (I can use it, I just have no passion for it), and I'm worried said problem would cause me great difficulty in both drawing vectors and programming.

Gah, TL;DR
Thank you piggy-senpai, and it's great to be back.

[C-Chan]

Glad to have you back too. ^___^

If you think Inkscape requires math, then methinks you haven't looked at it yet.  Oh well, no real problem,... just focus on Python and PyQT4, and sooner or later the urge to draw your own graphics will inevitably lead you back to Inkscape (which hopefully by then will be in version 0.47, or.... *prays*... the animation-enabled 0.48).  TvT

I'll be back later to talk more. ^___^

[C-Chan]

Hopefully, this will be more of a long-term stay. I never intended to be gone so long to begin with, but that's another story. I haven't had any major tech issues (you know, the entire reason I would keep coming to this forum, ^__~).

*cough*
Surely you jest.  -v-

I finally come to realize the main problem with ubuntuforums is a lack of thoughtfully written HowTos (steps skipped, commands not thoroughly explained, etc.), and I currently own two Linux books (one general Linux and one Ubuntu) to compensate for "HowTo" shortcomings. Anyway, the only real problems I've had in the past year were my exceedingly painful (yet somehow successful) dist-upgrade and the various foul-ups on my Xorg.conf and sources.list files, all of which I've solved.

That's good to hear.  ^___^
I do remember the old *Buntu adage: "When the next version comes out, Reinstall. Don't Upgrade!"  Naturally, though it's such a wussy way out if you ask me -- nevertheless, anyone well-versed in the inner workings of the system will know how to, A) do target installations of the new kernel/drivers/etc from the latest release, or B) know how to restore all their files and settings instantly after a reinstallation.  

In a way I'm kinda glad those painful experiences ended up successful.  Following the adage of "No Pain, No Gain", I imagine the experiences have left you stronger and wiser.  Regardless of what you and I might've throught when we first began this journey, Humility is such an important prerequisite of responsible Linux usage.  ^___^

Yeah, "The Club", I can still remember when I was afraid it would be closed for being possible flamebait. Kinda funny being around to see it start, take off for awhile and return only to see it has become this big thing. I guess I'll have to start posting in there from now on.

You're welcome to.  ^__^
I never really seriously doubted the future of our little club, since the people who DID try to get it closed down did not do so because of a gross misunderstanding of the facts, but rather a complete disregard for them.  Once peace was restored to the galaxy, that thread took a healthy and hearty life of its own.  ^^

As far as my interest in Python goes, I plan to start by simply editing scripts for pre-existing programs, but I doesn't fulfill me to simply cut-and-paste commands and such without knowing what the hell I'm doing, you know? Of course, I do have an interest in making my own programs as well, but all I've got now are ideas and no way to implement them. Anyway, I was glad to hear that of all people Piggy-senpai was into this as well. If I haven't made it obvious already, I've come to trust your judgement ^__^.

Wow!  That's a lot of power I wield then.  ^___^

*thinks of ways to abuse it*

Go make me a sandwich!  NAU!!  ^0^

In any event, I started BASH scripting in much the same you plan to start Python, although in my case it was more of a requirement to keep up with the other developers.  It helped to go through this tutorial:

http://www.linuxcommand.org/

...but I didn't actually soar with it until I kept practicing more and more, dissecting lengthy scripts that handled key functions I was familiar with.

BTW, if you want to dissect your first Python script, here's one I posted up in the art threads.  ^___^

Very very very basic stuff (doesn't use Lists even, but Tuples) that I've since read about better ways of doing, but will likely be very easy for you to decipher.... ^____^

Code Select Expand

# Word Jumble
#
# The computer picks a random word and then "jumbles" it
# The player has to guess the original word

import random

# create a sequence of words to choose from
WORDS = ("amiga",
        "beos",
        "openvms",
        "os/2",
        "windows",
        "macintosh",
        "unix",
        "linux",
        "freebsd",
        "solaris",
        "riscos",
        "reactos",
        "vxworks",
        "multics",
        "dos")

# create a sequence of hints to choose from
HINTS = ("Is tall and cheerful, with beautiful rainbow eyes!",
        "Has bicolored eyes and is studious.",
        "Loves sharks, carries a cleaver, and needs a shrink.  FAST!",
        "Star Trek fangirl. Also has medusa-hair.",
        "In a world without walls, who needs...",
        "It's mostly about cats rather than fruit these days.",
        "Slackware-chan's Object O' Worship",
        "Penguins can't march without...",
        "Smart, sexy but also glutinous",
        "Can control magnetism and summon solar flares.",
        "Indestructible, but stylish.",
        "Windoze Wannabe.  'Nuff said.",
        "Carries a railgun and has been to Mars",
        "ITS-sama gave her a ride in a recent comic."
        "Contrary to what the BBC said, Bill Gates did not create this....")


# pick one word randomly from the sequence
i = random.randrange(len(WORDS))
word = WORDS[i]
hint = HINTS[i]

# create a variable to use later to see if the guess is correct
correct = word

# create a jumbled version of the word
jumble = ""

while word:
   # get a random letter in "word"
   position = random.randrange(len(word))
   # append the random letter into "jumble"
   jumble += word[position]
   # make "word" equal all the letters before the random letter,
   # and append the remaining letters after the random letter.
   word = word[:position] + word[(position+1):]

# start the game
print \
     """
             Welcome to Word Jumble!

        Unscramble the letters to make a word!
     (Press the enter key at the prompt to quit.)
     """

print "The jumble is:", jumble

# ask the player to guess the word
guess = raw_input("\nYour guess: ")
# force the guess to be lowercase
guess = guess.lower()

while (guess != correct) and (guess!= ""):
   print "Sorry, that's not it."
   print "Here's a hint:\n", hint
   guess = raw_input("\nYour guess: ")
   guess = guess.lower()

if guess == correct:
   print "That's it! You guessed it!\n"

print "Thanks for playing!"

raw_input("\n\nPress the enter key to exit.")

If you already downloaded the Python IDLE and know how to open/use it, you should know how to run this.  You can also do it from the Terminal if you save it to a file (e.g., wordjumble.py), and then run it in the same directory from the command line (using "python ./wordjumble.py").  ^__^

[IanDanKilmaster]

# start the game
print \
     """
             Welcome to Word Jumble!

        Unscramble the letters to make a word!
     (Press the enter key at the prompt to quit.)
     """

For some reason, this portion of the script won't run as is.  I had to delete the "\" and the indent before the quotes to even run the program at all.  So now I get the prompt to unscramble, but no welcome message.  I guess in my continuing studies I'll figure out what's going on here...

[C-Chan]

Oh duh!  yeah, i forgot I posted a bugged out version of the script.  ^^'
There's a blank space after that "print \" instance you quoted -- delete that space and you'll be fine.

This is actually more obvious to catch in the Python IDLE, since it highlights any syntax that bugs out prior to running. ^__^

[IanDanKilmaster]

*slaps head*
That's what IDLE was telling me the whole time, but I thought it was upset about the entire highlighted space after the "\".  Well, it works now, obviously, lol.

[C-Chan]

Fufu!  Congratulations on your first bit of bug fixing.  ^^

Now that you've run it, you can see how crap-simple it is -- but I figure big things need small beginnings.  ^__^

Let me know if you need help with line by line dissection -- if you're fresh-new to programming of any kind, standard things (like loops, variables and if-else statements) may not seem immediately obvious..

(e.g., took me a LOOOOOONG time to fully understand and use loops in my work code)  ^^;