Linux

[Tsubashi]

Luser-friendly means it hates everyone who tries to understand it.

Do pray tell by which abstract and surely incomprehensible means you have come to this baseless accusation. For years the Macintosh has been renown for its ease of use and user-friendlyness, which, until now, has had no command line to speak of! Now with a shift to a UNIX base, Macintosh retains it's elegance and ease of use and is now more technician-friendly. If you want something that is, by that definition, "luser-friendly" go look at the windows registry. I doubt there is anything more esoteric and inscrutable as that.

Good Heavens man, if you're going to blatantly insult something, back it up!

[C-Chan]

Oh?  Didn't see Neji's post...  '_'
(Must've appeared before I sent mine)

Oh well, I'm not in expert in Macs yet (though a coworker of mine just got a G5 and
we're going head over heals about its beauty... ^__^), so I'll let you handle that while I focus on scolding Kami-Tux.  ^__^

In any event, getting back to the issue at hand....

Neji-san, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of software do you want to use on Feisty?  Do you just want the bare essentials (office suite, graphics program, CD burner, multimedia player, browser, etc?) or do you need something more specialized (like DC++ tools)?

I'm asking cause the *Buntu liveCD is a bit on the bare-bones side as far as click-and-run apps are concerned (probably because it's designed to entice you to install the whole thing... ^.^).  If you want more progies, you'll need to access the repository -- and if you haven't used one before, let me know before you leave.  ^__^
(Very easy and very cool feature that Windows ought to have, but works best with internet access.)

Oh, and if you want to play MP3's, DVDs and other licensed media, let me know as well.  (If worse comes to worst, we can get you to take Linux Mint instead, which is essentially a prettied-up version of Ubuntu/Kubuntu with licensed media codecs preinstalled).  ^.^

[NejinOniwa]

Tsuman, Tsubashi-kun, it wasn't meant as an insult. I just fukken really hate macs. I really do. I didn't realize just how much until I was forced to work with them at school, but i really really really hate them. Also the macs hate me. Um. It's a personal thing.


Also, senpai:
I do have some skills when it comes to the repository and such things - my dear cousin is running a dualboot xp/ubuntu, and having played around a bit with his compy i've learned some things at least. Oh and yeah, it DOES work to dl things from outside the repository as well, right?

[C-Chan]

Oh definitely.  ^__^

You have half-a-million options, mostly geared around compiling downloaded source codes (usually contained in tarballs), or converting another package format (like RPM) into something usable by *buntu.

But the closest equivalent to EXE setup files in Windows are DEB package files.  *buntu it already set up to install these upon double-click (although in some cases, it may still need dependencies), and in fact the repositories are essentially just GIGANTIC collections of DEB files which have been collected and tested for your convenience.  ^^

So yeah, if you want to take other software with you (to not risk being stuck without internet in the States), download a few DEB files to your stick now and you'll be set.  ^___^

(For peace of mind, try them on the Kubuntu LiveCD now before leaving, if there's still time,... not sure when you're leaving exactly.)

Added after 6 minutes:

One last thing.  Did you burn Kubuntu Feisty yet?  When you go and get the distros, you'll notice there are a few flavors:

- i386
- amd64
- PowerPC

i386 just means your generic 32-bit machine.  95% of all PCs in the world use this architecture, so this is definitely the one you want to use.  Will work on Mactels too, although granted it seems you wouldn't want to be caught dead near one....  ^__^'

AMD64 on the other hand are 64-bit machines.  Get this one ONLY if you know your host computer(s) are 64-bit.  64-bit anything (including Windows) is pretty pain-in-the-assish, but sadly some of us are stuck with them.  ;___;

*quickly hides AMD64 computer*

And PowerPC is for the old Mac machines (though lots of other OSes, like MorphOS and the new Amigas, run on this too.  Again, I don't see you getting this and I'm sure I'm just preaching to the choir (cause you seem good with computers), but hope you don't mind me taking extra precautions.  This piggy wants your trip to be pleasantssu.  ^__^

[Kami-Tux]

Do pray tell by which abstract and surely incomprehensible means you have come to this baseless accusation.

Well, it assumes everyone who uses it is 'merkbefreit' ... ie stupid, unable to make his or her own decisions, to learn ...

For years the Macintosh has been renown for its ease of use and user-friendlyness, which, until now, has had no command line to speak of!

It had scripting to take care of that disadvantage. Because Apple knew people wanted to get things done, it included the powerful-scripting language to make up the disadvantage of not knowing a command-line. However if you did not know that, you were sentenced to deal with all idiosyncracies and snafus of the OS.

Now with a shift to a UNIX base, Macintosh retains it's elegance and ease of use and is now more technician-friendly. If you want something that is, by that definition, "luser-friendly" go look at the windows registry.

Luser-friendly is not the opposite of obscurity, it is the opposite of maturity. The German term 'mündig' comes to mind here, meaning able to make his/her own decisions.

I doubt there is anything more esoteric and inscrutable as that.

The registry is fear and loathing, I agree with that.

Good Heavens man, if you're going to blatantly insult something, back it up!

*squawk*

I do have some skills when it comes to the repository and such things - my dear cousin is running a dualboot xp/ubuntu, and having played around a bit with his compy i've learned some things at least. Oh and yeah, it DOES work to dl things from outside the repository as well, right?

yeah, normally in a few easy steps:
1) find the software and download it either as tarball (.tar.gz or .tar.bz2-file) or as .deb-file
2) Either
2a) Either
2a1) tar xvfz software.tar.gz
2a2) or: tar xvfj software.tar.bz2
2a3) or: use a GUI-program to unpack the tarball
2b) or: install the .deb file with dpkg, skip to 5
3) cd software/ (ie: the directory tar just created)
4) ./configure
5) if things fail: fix your dependencies. It normally tells you what it needs. Use Apt for this. For deb files skip to 2b
6) make
7) sudo make install
Have a lot of fun!

[C-Chan]

*sigh*  What is it this time, Kami-Tux,...?

Over-caffeination or not enough sleep again.....?  T__T

In any event, lay off Tsubashi-san and Macs, as neither are doing you any personal harm, and doing so is like shooting yourself in the foot with a cannon.  -___-

[Kami-Tux]

Well, I believe ideas can be dangerous and this entire 'I don't have to know this computer-rubbish to use a computer' is IMHO a dangerous idea.

Well, mid-posting a friend called and I shoddily finished it.

BTW: I have set up a new keyboard layout. Now I can easily access these special characters: ßəƏâ,¬Â¢ÄÄœÅ­Å¬Ä±Ä°Ã¼ÃœÅÅœÅŸÅžÄŸÄžÄ¥Ä¤ÄµÄ´Ã¶Ã–äÃ,,ẋẊĉĈçÇზთ

(öäüß is needed for german, ŝĝĥĵŭ is needed for Esperanto, üşçğıİ is needed for Turkish, the rest, I added just because )

[Tsubashi]

Well, I believe ideas can be dangerous and this entire 'I don't have to know this computer-rubbish to use a computer' is IMHO a dangerous idea.

It's true, it is a rather unappetizing idea, but a lot of people who are incapable or unwilling to learn "this computer-rubbish" still need to use computers. Limiting computer use to only those who knew what they were doing is a bit elitist, ne? What about children? Most of them don't know a lot about computers, yet computers allow them to learn and study better and faster than at any other point in recorded human history. Should we deny them this privilege until they can fully comprehend how it works?

Well, it assumes everyone who uses it is 'merkbefreit' ... ie stupid, unable to make his or her own decisions, to learn ...

No, he explicitly said "Anyone" and "Tries to understand it" which a merkbefreit clearly could not do. My question still stands.

However if you did not know that, you were sentenced to deal with all idiosyncracies and snafus of the OS.

I missed how this is different from any other OS. I never condoned it's lack of command line as particularly user friendly, merely that AppleScript is more easily lumped in the "Programming" realm, so users felt a little more at ease. It is my opinion that Macintosh simply had less points at which said idiosyncracies and snafus needed to be dealt with.

Tsuman, Tsubashi-kun, it wasn't meant as an insult.

Insult
   verb |inˈsÉ™lt| [ trans. ]
   to speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse

. . .

May I formally request, then, that in the future you watch your wording.

BTW: I have set up a new keyboard layout. Now I can easily access these special characters:

That's nifty Kami-Tux-sama! What OS were you running on?

[Kami-Tux]

It's true, it is a rather unappetizing idea, but a lot of people who are incapable or unwilling to learn "this computer-rubbish" still need to use computers. Limiting computer use to only those who knew what they were doing is a bit elitist, ne? What about children? Most of them don't know a lot about computers, yet computers allow them to learn and study better and faster than at any other point in recorded human history. Should we deny them this privilege until they can fully comprehend how it works?

At least until they have a basic idea what they are doing, yeah. You wouldn't give a child a hammer without explaining how to use it and a computer is far more difficult.

No, he explicitly said "Anyone" and "Tries to understand it" which a merkbefreit clearly could not do. My question still stands.

Exactly, humans are nor like Apple wants them to be :> But Apple still assumes that. You are unable to get into system because the GUI stands in your way.

I missed how this is different from any other OS. I never condoned it's lack of command line as particularly user friendly, merely that AppleScript is more easily lumped in the "Programming" realm, so users felt a little more at ease. It is my opinion that Macintosh simply had less points at which said idiosyncracies and snafus needed to be dealt with.

Oh, there are lots of them, but seasoned users... "They only see Sa~edi hi and because of only seeing it think this is all that exists". I know the same under Linux. /bin /usr /opt seems normall if you only used Linux but if you compare systems, you do realize that every system has its glitches and therefore needs a method to deal with them. (locate in the case of n+x binary directories).

Also, every user wants to fix different things:for me, it's the buttons on the title bar. I too easily accidentally close windows. I only use GUIs where I can change that. Mac OS basically says: 'our GUI is great and that's it' you can not tweak it as much as you'd want. This is just an example :>

That's nifty Kami-Tux-sama! What OS were you running on?

I did it on my Gentoo

[Tsubashi]

Well, this is radically altering from the topic, so I feel obliged to end our argument here. If you do, however, feel that I am absolutely wrong and must be corrected, PM me and we can continue. Otherwise, I think this may pretty much be summed up as a difference in philosophies. I would have no qualms giving a child a hammer because I honestly believe standard operation is rather strait forward and obvious. Even if it wasn't however, I believe the child capable of experimenting and determining effective operations without my help, and then have it come to me to refine technique.

I did it on my Gentoo

Thought so, but had to ask just in case. Well then, congratulations on another successful endeavor!

[Kami-Tux]

*squawk* ty! And yeah, we should sum it up as different philosophies...

[C-Chan]

*puts away Wiki Mace*

Very good, guys.  Nice to see friends settle their differences properly.  ^__^

Now that we're on the subject, though, has anyone tried virtualizing a Classic MacOS on QEMU?  
(I'll try it anyway, but thought I should ask.)

[Kami-Tux]

I have not. *hold beak shut*

[Tsubashi]

I once considered virtualizing Mac OS 9 on my old compaq, but thought better of it after considering I already have eight computers running it, so why bother? I am interested to see how it turns out, so let us know if you do!

Oh, and thank you, Kami-Tux-sama, your courtesy has been duly noted ^__^

[C-Chan]

Fufufu.... actually couldn't get to try it (although i read I may need something called "PearPC" instead), but at least my day was not without it's "MACscapades"....  ^.^

http://ostan-collections.net/post-28254.html#28254

And yes, a slight sprinkling of Linux obviously.  -.-