Gunz

[Silentbob]

Hm, I figgered you meant the bank thing as a joke, no need for animosity is it?  

Anyhoo. The day I'd need to own a gun, that's the day this place (where I live) is no longer a good place to live.

I've fired lots of weapons over the years tho... Pistols, shotguns, rifles, I was also in a pistol club with my friend for a while.  Just out of curiosity really, never been really keen on doing it on a regular basis.

[CaptBrenden]

First, You're a security guard,and u need to carry a riffle? Right.

yes.

Oh and.. Yes.

One more thing... Yes.

Being as its operational security information, I cant say what, but dispite your holier then tho art additude against security, SOME security personel are highly trained and guard items of interest to national security.    Plus, you try stopping someone from ramming a truck full of explosives through a gate with a 9mm pistol, its not going to happen. a 9mm isnt likely to even penetrate the tempered glass, let alone be flying straight after words.  Plus, for acurate shooting a pistol is only good till about 20 yards, after that the risk of a miss is to great.  Like i said, without a scope i can hit a potential target from 500  yards away.  Pistol wouldnt do me very good against somebody on a roof top sniping people at his former work now would it?

and before you bring up the shotgun, yes I need that too.  Its a hell of alot easier to get less then lethal rounds for a 12 guage then anything else.  Dispite what you SEEM to think, I dont like the idea of having to kill someone and like to have good alternitives near by.  Like the advanced tazer I just purchased.  Guns are always, as they should be, a last resort when all other means have failed or cannot be reasonably employed.

Second, you cant rob a bank with a pistol. u need a machine gun.

You watch too many movies.   Most robberies, including bank robberies are done with pistols and most of the staff or other patrons aren't even aware its happening untill he is alread on his way out. They walk up, jam a gun where the teller only can see it, get just what that teller has, threatens to shoot them if she calls the cops before he leaves and takes off.   Bank robberies are very rarely the 4 men in president masks with fully automatic AK47s taking hostages and blowing the safe open.  That just screams "CATCH ME!"  Because it will nearly always end up with a shoot out with the police.

Muggers, robbers, and all that, tend to use a concealable weapon, a pistol.  Heck most school shootings are performed by pistols (like the infamous verginia tech incident, which i might add, would have been stopped long before he had gotten that far if citizens in that school had been alowed to arm themselves)

Third,I doesn't take much to know that im a ignorant,self centred $!#@$#@.Just look at the cars i like.See the car, know the man.

Indeed, so it seems.

Hm, I figgered you meant the bank thing as a joke, no need for animosity is it?  

Joking about robbery, murder, shootings, and anything of the sort is NEVER a joke.    Too many people have died because they ASUMED he was joking about it (columbine high school for instance.)  No people in my line of work take that VERY seriously.  Especialy since everyone seems to think only people who contemplate stuff like that want to own guns and it makes things hard on responsible gun owners.

 

Anyhoo. The day I'd need to own a gun, that's the day this place (where I live) is no longer a good place to live.

I really dont think anyplace is safe to live really.  Unless you live in the middle of no where with no people.  Everywhere has a crime rate, its just lower in some places.    LA for instance, is the eqivelant of a urban warzone.  Seriously, SleepyD needs to move the hell out of there.  They offered me 75K a year to START as a cop there when I got out of the military.  I turned it down because I felt i had a better chance of dying there then I did in Iraq.  Gangers at least shoot straight and I dont have armored vehicles to back me up there.  But if your in one of those low crime places all the better.  But I personaly spent entirely too much time defending others lives and property to let my own be taken because I was complacent and thought it couldnt happen to me.

I've fired lots of weapons over the years tho... Pistols, shotguns, rifles, I was also in a pistol club with my friend for a while. Just out of curiosity really, never been really keen on doing it on a regular basis.

Its not for everyone.  Just like any other hobby not everyone will like it, but at least your not so scared of them that you avoid them and are ignorant of what they really are.

and to end this post, remember kids, guns dont kill people, shit heads holding guns kill people.

[Silentbob]

Ok, I realize that gun culture is different in different parts of the world.  I guess because we never had any school/university shootings here, it's easier to take jokes such as that more lightly, and you know yourself that when you've been to places like 4chan, everything, even those things get joked about, even if may be in extremely bad taste.   Anyhoo, note to everyone: this is not /b/.    And I don't condone those kind of jokes anyway, you'd never catch me telling one of them.

Armed bank robberies aren't common in Norway either, though we had one big one some years back where lots of automatic weapons were involved, there was an hour long shootout and a police officer was shot dead.   In the end all perps were caught though.  I'm not sure if it's either gun regulation, peoples attitude towards weapons in general or just the tighter police control that keeps stuff like that from happening (though police aren't normally carrying weapons here, ironically enough).

[CaptBrenden]

Indeed its a cultural issue.  US culture is what breeds crime, not guns.  Guns are simply tools used by the bad element.  Taking them away will not solve violent crime or their use, it will simply take them out of the hands of innocents or law enforcement protecting themselves.  They are just used as a scapegoat for people wanting an easy excuse for crime, rather then looking at the underlaying factors that create it.  

For example:  In verginia, where the forementioned shooting took place,  the individual that performed that massacar carried two pistols and reloading them took as much as a minute at a time.  Anyone that could have been armed that day, could have stopped him at that point, but since no law abiding citizens had one the perp was able to casually walk the halls and killed more people in one shooting then anyone else so far.

However, in other districts, where laws were passed allowing students and staff to carry with the proper permit, shooting were massivly down.  Simple fact being, the mass shooters are afraid of being shot themselves.  Even if they intend to die by the end, its not much of a statement if they only get 3 people before someone ends them.  They want to make a statement and thats not a very good one.  So they dont do it at schools where people could be armed.

In rare cases where they do attack, they are as I said, stopped after 1-3 victims usually.  One case (id have to look up the name)  it was the principle of a highschool that got his gun and prevented the individual from hurting more students.  

as the old saying goes, if you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns.

But like I said, people need to look more closely at the causes of crime, not the tools used in them.  Poverty, untreated mental illness, and the like. Heck, just allowing people to think that joking about killing someone or robbing a bank is laying the foundations of crime.  The seed of idea has to be planted first. If people dont concider it in the first place, it would never happen.

Example:  Im orignaly from montana.  In montana we had no, no guns at school laws.   Highschoolers used to keep their hunting rifles in a rack in the back window of their truck.  Montanans just think of rifles as for hunting.  The thought of using them to shoot people at school just never occured to us.  

When columnbine happened it really started this whole school shooting mess. I dont think I really remember much of that sort before that.  But after they made such a huge deal about it on the news, the schools paniced, the media covered it, its all you heard about, then they seemed to start happening left and right.  Some of that may be because there was less focus on it, but part of its also the thought never occured to them.  The medias coverage of the horror of such a shooting, in fact, seems to have caused more.  That raction is exactly what shooters want, they are pissed off at someone and want to show everyone how pissed off.  The media showed them how.

If you listen to me talk for any period of time, youll figure out I hate the media. They are not the becons of truth they claim to be.

Anyhow, Ive never lived anywhere where crime wasnt a major issue. Ive spent most of my time in either in the US, or in Iraq where its even worse.  I may not be the paranoid sort that I am if it wasnt for that fact, and if you can walk down the street without sizing up possible threats at all time, I truly envy you.

Doesnt mean I belive any less that being armed and knowlageable on the streets of a US city is any less of a good idea.

[IanDanKilmaster]

Allow me to first state that while I don't support organizations like the NRA, I do believe it's important for each American citizen to have the right to arm themselves (and I don't see where relegating it to just certain guns is going to help).  At the same time, I can, in some way, identify with people who'd just prefer not to be involved with guns at all.  In the wrong hands they are most certainly abominations, but really I see no way in avoiding that, I think everyone, in some amount, has a predisposition towards violence.  Sounds horrible, I know, but such is the downfall of our species, we take things that can have such potential for good and twist it into something that takes us further down the road of self-destruction.  Meh, enough with me waxing philosophical, I guess I should point out that I do believe it's important to have regulations on who weapons are sold to.  The only thing that bothers me about regulation is the potential for it to be abused, it's the kind of b.s. that happens all the time because some people just don't feel "safe" enough or just get drunk with power.  I too, really don't think outlawing guns is getting to the heart of the matter when it comes to crime.  Do I think allowing citizens to carry lowers crime?  Don't know, but it's got to be better than walking around feeling exposed, and hell, banning guns can only make matters worse.  I just don't understand the logic of people who want to have guns outlawed (this is coming from someone who considers himself liberal as teh f ***).  How does making a law affect lawless citizens, that is, why is a criminal going to be affected by gun laws when he does or at least intends to break the law to being with?  What bothers me is how are those who simply don't agree with guns going to feel if nearly every American citizen has a gun?  I know I wouldn't feel safe, so I have some concern about how fair gun laws must be to them as well.  Changing gears, obviously there are those people who shouldn't own a gun, even law-abiding citizens, whether they just don't feel comfortable wielding a gun, whether they have a mental disorder, or if they are just don't seem to be responsible enough to wield one ("The Nuge" and Mr. Heston come to mind).  All that being said, I consider myself a bit of a "non-participating" gun enthusiast (in other words, I like gun history, trivia, and technology {sucker for a six shooter}, but haven't actually used one but once or twice in my life).  For some time, I've thought about owning a gun, mostly for my own and others' protection (and maybe a little for hobbyist shooting), but have always been hesitant because it would be totally useless unless I knew how to operate the damn thing.

[CaptBrenden]

Well some restrictions are currently in place.  They could be alot tighter I would say, but they have to be tightened in the right way.  

I personaly feel that you should have to get a licence to own and purchase guns.  To get this licence you would need to pass a background check and attend a general gun operations and safety class.  Former or current law enforcement, military, and security should be able to skip the class part as long as they got out with an honorable discharge etc... Just like now, any felony convictions, or any convition of domestic abuse would take away your right to carry.  Persons of mental or medical conditions that would prevent them from being able to safely operate a gun would also be inelegable.  

HOWEVER, the goverment would have to have a valid reason to deny you this permit, unlike current concealed carry laws in states like california where they dont need a reason to let you have the licence.  Stupid californa.

With a process like that, I belive that we would increse the number of responsible gun owners.  With a own/purchase licence and a concealed carry permit responsible gun owners would be able to freely purchase and carry their weapons.   Too much hassle to attend a class before you buy?  I think not.  If your a responsible person, your willing to take the time to better your skills.

on a side rant about california.. that Walther P22 I have displayed above, in california its illegal to own, because you can purchase a threaded barrel for a mock silencer.  Because of that, its concidered an "assault weapon" by their laws.  -_- its no bigger then it is in that picture, and it fires 22 LR, which is unlikely to even penetrate someones skulls, and cirtanly wouldnt penetrate a car or anything like that. Plus, its a MOCK silencer.  Not that a 22 really needs a silencer, its pretty quiet as it is.  Stupid california.

Speaking of revolvers, Ive been looking to get a .357 colt python (liek barry carried in resident evil)  I wouldnt carry it on duty, but revolvers are a blast to use in target/compitetion shooting.  If i had to name a "gentalmens weapons" that would be it.    Some people like them for duty tho.. unlike automatics revolvers dont jam, missfeed, double feed, fail to extract or any number of mechanical errors.  They are by far more reliable in that aspect.. its the round capacity that causes a problem...

You should go to ranges more often. Its a fun hobby, and you dont have to own. Most ranges have relitivly cheap rental rates.  The local range here will allow you to rent as many guns as you like for 12 dollars (tho you can only rent one at a time, and renting guns of differnt calibers will make you buy more ammo -_-)  Or, you could get a small caliber target pistol. That Walther P22 I have was 275 when I bought it, it costs me 20 dollars per spare mag. Pretty cheap to buy over all, and you can get a box of 500 rounds of 22LR for about 10 bucks at walmart.  VS my .50 cal desert eagle which costs 35 for 25 rounds (more then a dollar a shot but hells yes is it worth it!)

They sell 22LR in revolvers too, since thats your fancy.  Buy a 22 revolver (about 300 dollars approx) targets and ammo (5 for a packet of pistol targets, 10 per 500 rounds) and some hearing and eye protection and your set to target shoot for a while.  you could spend about 15 a month and shoot every weekend with one like that.  Plus, 50 bucks at walmat would get you an electronic fire proof safe big enough to lock it up between trips if you worry about that sort of thing.  

This taurus retails for 300-325 I hear, its pretty concealable and holds 7 shots.  pretty good possibility.


or here is a stub that would be great as a self defence conceable. Ince its taurus its likely to be just as cheap if not cheaper.  


As for learning to shoot, Im sure any range would be happy to give classes, or even other hobbiest shooters there if you ask them for pointers.  Id give you lessons, but I cant exactly run by to give them -_-

[IanDanKilmaster]

Yeah, those kind of restrictions make sense, it's just that one rarely sees such care taken in making them.

My local Army/Navy pawn shop had a few revolvers, Rugers in fact, nearly nosebleed-worthy.  I think my fav gun is the Colt SAA, mostly due to it being the weapon of choice of Revolver Ocelot, of course there's the historical factor too.  I also loves the Python...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Python-nickel.jpg
Now THAT'S totally nosebleed-worthy.  You gots your 10 types of awesome right there!

Thanks for the advice, and I appreciate your gesture of help.  Perhaps I'll have enough time and money to do some shooting during the holidays, currently school doesn't leave me with enough time.

[CaptBrenden]

ah the good old single action army.. very nosebleed worthy, however i cant see myselve owning a single action revolver -_- cocking between each shot makes things rather difficult at times.

[SleepyD]

Well some restrictions are currently in place.  They could be alot tighter I would say, but they have to be tightened in the right way.  

I personaly feel that you should have to get a licence to own and purchase guns.  To get this licence you would need to pass a background check and attend a general gun operations and safety class.  Former or current law enforcement, military, and security should be able to skip the class part as long as they got out with an honorable discharge etc... Just like now, any felony convictions, or any convition of domestic abuse would take away your right to carry.  Persons of mental or medical conditions that would prevent them from being able to safely operate a gun would also be inelegable.  

HOWEVER, the goverment would have to have a valid reason to deny you this permit, unlike current concealed carry laws in states like california where they dont need a reason to let you have the licence.  Stupid californa.

With a process like that, I belive that we would increse the number of responsible gun owners.  With a own/purchase licence and a concealed carry permit responsible gun owners would be able to freely purchase and carry their weapons.   Too much hassle to attend a class before you buy?  I think not.  If your a responsible person, your willing to take the time to better your skills.

Haha.... yeah, CA gun laws suck.  People who want a gun for shady purposes are going to get them anyway.... And the "rules" that decide which guns are "assault weapons" seem very arbitrary, as are the list of guns in addition to the guns already banned by federal law.  
I do believe it was one (or both) of our senators who pushed for these restrictions.

I'd be willing to take classes.  In fact... I don't see the point in buying a working firearm without learning how to use the thing.  
Guns do interest me.  There's that thing about beautifully crafted weapons (guns or otherwise) I can't describe. ^^

[CaptBrenden]

well, buying one without attempting to learn how to use it yes, but if you buy it with intent to learn, its nice to learn with the weapon you will be shooting from then on.  

I hear you tho, the draw of finely crafted weapons is great.  thats why you wont see me with cheap knock off sand the like. Like I have a bunch of swords, but they arnt cheap mall knock offs, they are made by a spanish steel company that makes the marine corps saber.  They, if sharpened would stand up to combat use.  

Like I said before, I look at guns like other people look at cars.  Its a finly crafted peice of machinery.

[IanDanKilmaster]

well, buying one without attempting to learn how to use it yes, but if you buy it with intent to learn, its nice to learn with the weapon you will be shooting from then on.  

I hear you tho, the draw of finely crafted weapons is great.  thats why you wont see me with cheap knock off sand the like. Like I have a bunch of swords, but they arnt cheap mall knock offs, they are made by a spanish steel company that makes the marine corps saber.  They, if sharpened would stand up to combat use.  

Like I said before, I look at guns like other people look at cars.  Its a finly crafted peice of machinery.

Indeed, I agree wholeheartedly.  I don't know why liking weapons has to be associated with being a war-mongering, violent, rednecked bastard (I guess "The Nuge" and Mr. Heston probably have something to do with that).  Seriously, it's something I find myself doing, hence my initial reluctance to post in this thread.  I think what really hurts truly responsible gun users and their image is that they are so closely identified with public figures who so often call themselves "responsible" - essentially idiots who rape the word and deprive it of any meaning with their behavior (which is anything but responsible).  Not that those gun owners who are responsible should answer for those who aren't, but most certainly I would want to be distanced from anyone like that if I owned a gun.  Anyway, back to the point, which is that a gun's positivity/negativity is determined by whoever is holding it, and that I wish more people truly knew that.  From what I've read, Cap'n, you are one of those people, something I don't encounter far too often given my location in these great United States.  You are obviously a cultured person when it comes to firearms and other weaponry and I would trust that you would know how and when to use your weapon.  For that, you are to be commended.

[Smokey]

Okay, let's start finally posting in here then...

I want this one, even though it is banned from holland because it looks too much like a firearm... (It's a frigging CO2 pistol for crying out loud)...



It's the Walther Nighthawk, tactical semi-automatic air pistol...

And i want this Russian Bad Boy... it's the new version of this one...


Semi automatic or even full auto 3 or 6rnd burst... Pretty cool for a bb gun...

Plus a S&W .177 revolver...

Anywayz, i currently own a Crossman 1377c .177cal (well the older model...), a Diana mod35 (wich was one of the most powerful spring guns in the '50s ) and a megaline crossbow i bought as an impulse buy... ^_^

But i think air guns are not less worthy than firearms... since they also involve intricate mechanics, beautiful modeling and they can be a hell of a lot of fun when used against old stereo's (of course i use steel plating to catch the bullets that fully penetrate the stereotower...)

[CaptBrenden]

<_< this is the point where most gun boards would tell you to STFU and GTFO for bringing "airshit" into the conversation. Im all up for an airsoft thread, but this thread is for talk about REAL guns :p

FISH GUN!


and here is a picture of my babies.. well 2 of them..

[IanDanKilmaster]

But weren't we talking about crossbows when you told us to move the discussion to this thread?

In all seriousness though, should we really add another thread for airsoft?  Myah, I'm not debating it though, just a little worried we're giving Smokey excuses to go off and make more threads .

[Smokey]

naah, i'm not minding that talk... air guns are guns too, and just as lethal...
I'm not making a seperate thread for that...

Added after 7 minutes:

And yeah, we were also talking about crossbows, but i'll drop that before cappie goes complaining about them not being guns...

I don't get it anyways... i'd bet i had more fun with my so called "toys" than most people had with their big bad firearms...