Project WIKI

[Tsubashi]

strange, its quite the heated discussion right now

[NewYinzer]

I'm unable to connect - access is denied for some reason

[C-Chan]

*sigh* It's a beta.
It's not supposed to be open to the public yet, nor is it supposed to be easily accessible from the front page.  You want to edit it, then ask -- but if you get permission to do so, then EDIT SOMETHING.  

If I recall, even editing the old Wikipedia article occurred at a snail's pace, and THAT was with no restrictions on who can and cannot edit it.
You also had MONTHS to do original research to save that article, and that didn't happen either, so don't pretend like that's a prerequisite here because, like you say, it's neigh impossible thanks to a everyone's favorite little catch-word, "anonymity".  Hence my greater focus on the "technical" aspects of the design and the OS, since those are tangible facts.

The only concession I will make is that we CAN still have a separate category for Canon OS-tans, so that we know which designs are considered "official".  

But the List of OS-tans must stay as is because it is a pure and simple REFERENCE tool for new initiates wondering "Is there an A/UX-tan?".

Worried that we'll glorify one version over another?
Okay then, we'll just do like I did with Ubuntu... ^__^

LIST THEM ALL!  >_<

THAT would really make the wiki comprehensive wouldn't it?  'v'

*sigh* Okay, that's all I have to say on the matter in public.  -___-
I can't join your IRC, but hope you come out of it with cooler heads.

[NewYinzer]

Oy, let's all get some sleep and work this out tomorrow. I think that we're starting to act on emotion rather than on better judgment.

You also had MONTHS to do original research to save that article, and that didn't happen either, so don't pretend like that's a prerequisite here because, like you say, it's neigh impossible thanks to a everyone's favorite little catch-word, "anonymity". Hence my greater focus on the "technical" aspects of the design and the OS, since those are tangible facts.

C-Chan, Wikipedia built a crusade against the article and we didn't have a place to get research from. My RL is demanding but I do my best to make this site better. But don't come at me in a fit of rage after a small mistake I made. It's in the past. Let's move forward.

[SleepyD]

Alrighty now.


Fedora did say the Wiki is in the beta stage.  A point that did not come to mind when I first got into this debate.

Due to that, I will agree with Fedora in keeping it away from Anonymous.

Next, I understand we all have lives.  Therefore, I don't expect major changes in the actual content of the wiki just yet.  However, you must agree with me that a lot of articles here do need work.  Once this thing is out of beta, we really need as much help as we can get on these articles.

Ok, lastly, there are a couple of other issues that were presented in this whole thing regarding the wiki.  Particularly how the list of OS-tans is organized and why it may be necessary to differentiate between in-house creations and the more widespread ones.  
These issues shouldn't be a priority, since this wiki isn't well known to the public anyway. I'd like to focus on the content myself.

Having said that, I'm extremely sorry if any of my comments seemed insulting to anyone in here. I assure you, I didn't mean to do so.
And second, I am sorry for not editing the wiki lately.  

Now, let's all just have a group hug, let bygones be bygones, and edit this suckah like we always do.

[Darknight_88]

The only concession I will make is that we CAN still have a separate category for Canon OS-tans, so that we know which designs are considered "official".  

But the List of OS-tans must stay as is because it is a pure and simple REFERENCE tool for new initiates wondering "Is there an A/UX-tan?".

In fact, one of the new edit proposals, which was the result of the IRC discussion (at least at the time I left), was to do at least 2 "Os-tan lists:
1)The first one classifying the "Official" and with a link to another article that lists all the "Un-official" (obscure, rare, etc. The name for that list needs to be discussed. That includes characters made by japanese people but who aren't well known). This in order to avoid any debates about "forcing" characters into newcomers.
2)The second one would be the actual list, classifying them according to their families (windows, mac, linux, etc)

So yeah, the actual list won't be erased, but I think the "official/unofficial characters" list should be the main one (with a link at the beginning of the article that directs to a "Characters listed by their families". Or something like that, the idea still needs refinement)


I won't say anything more about opening to the general public, as it's still a beta version (didn't knew that. Must read more >_>). But once it passes its beta phase, then it should be opened to anyone for editing.

[Kami-Tux]

You don't understand the problem I wanted you to see. I could show you n+x Devilette pictures and still everyone here would agree that Devilette is not a common character. Because Japan messed up here and ignored the existing 'design'.

This illustrates my point well: what makes an OS-tan accepted? When does it gain acceptance? When is it becoming obscure?

Unless that is solved in a generally agreed-upon way, this is unimplementable.

[Fedora-Tan]

I won't say anything more about opening to the general public, as it's still a beta version (didn't knew that. Must read more >_>). But once it passes its beta phase, then it should be opened to anyone for editing.

Sorry i didn't make it more clear myself then. Anyway, i wait the "it's ok" from C-Chan or NY to consider wiki as public. We need a minimum decent content before making it public, and it's not up to me to decide that.

[C-Chan]

Will do.  -.-

At the moment, the Wiki is most definitely NOT ready for public consumption.  It does not meet the standards of minimum decent content yet, although an official ETC was given for some time during the "summer".  Once that's done and we're comfortable with the level of content, then yes I am in agreement that it should be publicly accessible for editing.  -v-

And I say this not just to attract people who know more about the canon OS-tans, but also to attract artists of alternative OS-tans to contribute a little more information about their own character's personality (if applicable).  Besides, the body of knowledge on the subject is too large to handle even if we could get every single OS-tan Collections member to participate.  The more hands inovlved, the better chances it has to gain relevance to all interested parties.  -.-

BTW, Fedora-dono, the reason I proposed what I did in the Picture Gallery was to provide some solid picture gallery link in each Wiki article where all known designs for that girl can be viewed.  I would rather provide visitors with a single master link,for pictures, rather than half-a-million links to images strewn all over the internet (or even within our own gallery), which may or may not work over time.  -v-

Oh and FYI, Darknight I've added you into the list of beta-testers, since you seem interested to do some editing of your own.
Your first login will produce an error message, but after that you're ready to rock and roll.  -.-

Added after 6 hours 8 minutes:

FYI, I created that separate partition for Canon OS-tans.  Actually, this could work to our advantage after all, since the loneliness does beg the more open-minded visitor to seek out the more interesting Full List.  

Major changes to review are in the main page and the new Canon OS-tan index:

http://ostan-collections.net/wiki/
http://ostan-collections.net/wiki/List_of_Canon_OS-tans

Added after 7 minutes:

Also, you guys decide whether it's safe to put Vista in there, given the volatility of the subject. ^^'

Don't forget what the Captain said here:

http://ostan-collections.net/post-20838.html#20838

I don't really fancy the subject, but I wonder if a flowchart depicting the origins of the OS-tan phenomenon and all the major boards that contributed to this would be useful (naturally it would be saved in an SVG file so people can update it later).  I'm reminded of the Unix family tree in its respective Wiki article:

[NewYinzer]

Let's get back to work, shall we? It's time that we get a plan going for the wiki. However, since I don't want to anger C-Chan, I'll leave the implementation to him and concentrate on the broad goals:

To move from "Beta" (where we are now) to "Gamma" (where we want to be before we open the wiki) Stage:

1. Fill in all the holes: Create articles for the more obscure OS-tans on the list. You can tell which ones I mean when you see a link in RED.
2. Fix the bugs: Scan for grammatical issues, both basic and more complicated.
3. Polish the doorway: Make sure that the articles for the Canon OS-tans are concise and complete, ready to be presented. If the articles are too big, chances are that some of the info is not based on hard facts.
4. Put on the Trimmings: Make sure that our OSC-created OS-tan articles are brought up to the same quality standards as the Canon ones, but with more firsthand detail.
5. Gather the Troops: Increase the number of forum members on the wiki, so that they can help out when C-Chan and I are absent. Gussy Keniji is a good example of what we need in the way of extra help.
6. Inspect the Machine: Before opening takes place, we need to inspect the articles and stamp some seal of approval on them.
7. Gain Consensus: Once these steps are completed, we should consult everyone who has worked on the wiki, and hold a poll to determine whether to open it or not.
8. Cut the Red Tape: Open the wiki to the general public!

But wait, NewYinzer, Number Eight seems too easy! What do you mean?

To move from "Gamma" (where we want to be before we open the wiki) to "Delta" (where we want to be shortly after we open the wiki) Stage:

1. Keep It Simple: Signing up for the wiki should be as easy as it is on any wiki - just enter e-mail, username, and password. This should also double for the forum and gallery.
2. Regroup the Forces: Establish a "Village Pump", so that we can better organize the people on the wiki and open a dialog on its progress.
3. Advertise: Once we are ready to open the wiki, adding a link on Wikipedia would increase traffic and signups. Adding ads on flickr, imageshack, and elsewhere would help.
4. Change to Adapt: The wiki shall be led in a way conducive to change - after we reach a point that we can open the wiki, we should not view this as the end, but the beginning. Setting more goals and exploring more ways to make it better should be Priority One!

Hope I haven't said anything too critical or demanding here. I'm just trying to structure our wiki efforts so that we have a good idea of where we're going.

[Aurora Borealis]

Progress is going great on the wiki! Lots of new articles up in the past few days! ;010

I wish I could directly contribute to that but I do not know how to edit a wiki at all. But I will be back making new wiki avis and posting OS-tan info that can be put into the wiki by someone who knows how to edit.

[Tsubashi]

An admirable list of goals to be sure, NewYinzer-san. An excellent idea to be sure, though there are a few things I disagree on.

However, since I don't want to anger C-Chan, I'll leave the implementation to him and concentrate on the broad goals:

Though I cannot speak for Senpai, I would venture a guess that it is precisely your reluctance to carry things out that tick people off a bit.

...If the articles are too big, chances are that some of the info is not based on hard facts.

This is the part that will cause the most grief. Remember, the OS-tans are fictitious. Though many of them have commonly accepted 'stories' and 'personalities' there is no such thing as 'cold hard facts'
This is one of the main reasons why I think Senpai is right in pushing for changing it to the 'OS-tan collections wiki', to avoid offending others.

7. Gain Consensus: Once these steps are completed, we should consult everyone who has worked on the wiki, and hold a poll to determine whether to open it or not.

This step ought to be skipped. When the wiki moderators say the wiki is ready to be opened, it will be opened.

1. Keep It Simple: Signing up for the wiki should be as easy as it is on any wiki - just enter e-mail, username, and password. This should also double for the forum and gallery.

We will probably keep registration the same as it is now. After all, wiki regulars will need to have access to wiki threads too.

2. Regroup the Forces: Establish a "Village Pump", so that we can better organize the people on the wiki and open a dialog on its progress.

You lost me with this one; I'm not sure what you mean. Judging from context, though, I think this thread already serves that purpose, ne?

adding a link on Wikipedia would increase traffic and signups.

It might also offend some people because, as Captain-san would put it, it would be 'shameless self-promotion!' ^^'


Aside from that, I'd say go for it. The best thing now is to add content, as I see you've been doing. Keep up the good work! ^.^


Now, as for you Aurora-sama...
What is this about not knowing how to edit a wiki at all?!?
Sure you can! It's really easy. Besides, if I can do it, I'm sure someone such as yourself could pick it up easily! I've added you to the wiki group, so feel free to try your hand at it!

And Lastly, Gussy-san!

Hooray for Gussy-san and his spectacular contributions to the wiki!!! Keep up the awesomeness, ne? ^v^

[C-Chan]

Ohhoho.... this thread lives again.  -v-

However, since I don't want to anger C-Chan, I'll leave the implementation to him and concentrate on the broad goals:

Well think of it this way, there are three major ways to make me angry:

1) Talk much, but not do anything.
2) Backstab me.
3) Create trouble

Soooo,.... as long as you keep productive catching up on Wiki articles, follow the Golden Rule, and not fish for trouble elsewhere,... again... then I'm okay with you doing or saying anything you want, whenever you want to, however you want to.  -v-

I should probably let you know in advance that I'll be away from town next weekend, so be prepared to work without me for a few days.  Most of my current commission work is done, so I'll likely be able to expand upon the articles you set up beginning tomorrow.  

Now then, let's look at this checklist....

1)  Agreed, although that was already our current mission objective.  We probably just want to expedite that process.
2)  This one will probably need to wait till we get some gnomes.
3)  Yeah, have to agree with Tsubashi-dono on this one.  Don't think you'll ever appease the Wakans on this one; instead, consider expounding on the language to sound less assertive when it comes to any OS-tan not of our domain.  ^^'
4)  Agreed, and in fact that would be our greatest strength.
5)  That'd be nice.  BTW, many thanks for Gus-san for responding to the call of duty very quickly!  ^__^
6)  Perhaps its because I don't envision any "grand opening" with ticker tape and such, but I see this as something that's gonna happen all the time, every time we check an edit.
7)  Nope.
8 )  Nein.  I've been through several Linux-related Wikis these past few weeks, and I was amazed how ALL of them required registration of some sort.  It gives me the impression that Wikipedia and Uncyclopedia are more the exception than the norm, and certainly as we change the direction of this Wiki towards greater localization, the need to open it up to the public becomes more and more irrelevant.

However, it is your particular ambition and I do applaud you for having this grand vision to begin with.  If you want to strive for a more public wiki and greater advertisement, I ultimately won't stop you, but should remind you that not everyone thinks as you do and will appreciate the same kind of virtues you're trying to extoll.

Now then, I do have, not necessarily goal objectives, but proposed design changes that I plan to implement in the near future:

A)  Conversion of "Original Creators" fields to "Drawn By", where various artists can be listed and not just the first.  Also propose eliminatino of "First Appearance" field entirely, for the same reason that we don't want to chain ourselves to the original design.

B)  Develop Info Boxes for Gus-san's virus-tans.  Naturally, these would have information specific to malware, such as "Systems Infected", "Threat Level", etc.

C) Wiki Avi standardization to Mini format, and my Inkscape tutorials are in part preparation towards teaching people how to create them.  Naturallyt the current Wiki Avis will not be abandoned, and will be used towards another Wiki feature -- however, as far as the representative icons are concerned, a standard look can help unify all the characters.

D)  Consider alternate OS-tan listings, such as searching by Alpha Order or by Family Tree.[/list]

[Icelilly]

Well think of it this way, there are three major ways to make me angry:

1) Talk much, but not do anything.
2) Backstab me.
3) Create trouble

I hope I never get on your bad side... ;_;

B)  Develop Info Boxes for Gus-san's virus-tans.  Naturally, these would have information specific to malware, such as "Systems Infected", "Threat Level", etc.

I like this idea a lot. It could be a great help to those that have difficult time finding information on the malware-tans (namely myself). ^__^

EDIT: I forgot to ask, should we create pages for the error-tans like 404-tan?

[C-Chan]

Yo Lilly-san!  ^^
Sure, why not, and I think they would be okay in the Site-tan section since they are, technically, related to websites (in this case, those not found.  That's another reason why I want to convert the avatars to Minis, since there's potential to create one for every single character cooked up in OSC.  ^__^

(in this case, Infinity-san made a Mini for all the error-tans)