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[Pitkin]

*added Nejin and his beard to favourites*

[Simonorged]

Damn-it, Here I was trying to argue that Men have changed enough that they shouldn't be considered sexist and what happens, A minor comes along a proves my point wrong.

What the fuck man, just what the fuck.
All this fucking proved is that the ladies still have to worry.

[Bella]

KKK related moment Bells heard from me; my friends and I are at this awesome antique mall checking everything out for the first time.  All kinds of sweet swag to be had.  Then I get to this one booth and realize..... it is literally full of KKK memorabilia, including a blank membership certificate for the Maryland KKK and a selection of chapter patches.

There was a brief awkward moment because KKK patches look a lot like old Shriner patches and the like.

I'll avoid contributing victimology statistics to the discussion...

Was it the same antique store that we went to? 'Cause I remember seeing some KKK stuff in a booth there, too. :/

Or maybe we should impose similar rules elsewhere? Maybe, if a man is not sporting a beard, he shouldn't be surprised when he gets whipped for looking indecent?

Huzzah! I am safe!

Sexism is an unfortunate byproduct of men being in the driving seat of civilization for way too long. Like all other examples of arhaic, nonsensical constructs in our society, it is a vile taint that must be purged.

Hear hear, Nej.

Damn-it, Here I was trying to argue that Men have changed enough that they shouldn't be considered sexist and what happens, A minor comes along a proves my point wrong.

What the fuck man, just what the fuck.
All this fucking proved is that the ladies still have to worry.

I feel like I'm missing something here, because I have no idea what you mean or who you're talking to. Can you clarify please?

[Nichi]

I think he's talking about Leaf, to be honest

[alfonso_rd_30]

Ok, Sexism... Well, I'm an ugly Guy.... One whom knows well most girls are out his league, not because of that I'll force myself upon any Girl I want, And Women have the right to dress the way they feel more comfortable as we Men do... rape is a bad thing, and as Nej said, the extermination of rapist is a must...

Racism is bad too, every one is different and deserves respect...

BTW, Tomorrow starts the Election of the New Pope, and a Website launched itself against the Bishop Cardinal of Mexico City...
[Edit: the ones electing the new Pope are the Cardinals, not Bishops]

[Simonorged]

@Bella:I was talking to leaf.

Welp, looks like we still have some sexism to eradicate.

[Chocofreak13]

@alfonso: wait, people are petitioning AGAINST the bishop of mexico city?

well that's just mean. :[


@simon, pit, nej: i ended up mentioning this topic in the car while we were dropping people off last night. it sparked a debate between Alex and Artemis on gender politics, equality, feminism and why it can be a bad thing, and the disposable male.
it was really quite interesting. i'm going to encourage alex to use my sister's account to weigh in on it. i agree with a lot of his points, such as how there is a sort of reverse-discrimination going on in society, since if you say you're Proud to be Gay, Proud to be Black or Proud to be a Woman, people will applaud you, but if you are Proud to be Straight, Proud to be White or Proud to be a Man, people cast a disapproving eye on you for propagating such nonsense.

with this in mind, it seems i am not a feminist, but a humanist.


@simon: i'm frustrated with the kid too. >>;

[Nichi]

That would be interesting to hear. I do have one question, though

... and the disposable male.

What does that mean, anyway? It's honestly making me think of my rather deep-seated fear of being rendered obsolete .___.

[Simonorged]

Thankyou Choco, that is what I was trying to get at.

[LeaflameSD]

Before this turns into a huge debate/argument, I just wanna say that I was only expressing my opinion. I mean you may think I'm underaged, but think about it; if you are going to the supermarket or something you don't have to go out in a night club top or something, just wear a sweater or something ya know, save all that stuff for later. I mean you look even nicer like that. Not trying to be a sexist or anything... also please stop calling me a minor or kid

[Pitkin]

LeaflameSD, I'm afraid this post is going to be fairly hot-blooded.

First, I most certainly won't call you a kid: age is not an excuse for such utterly misogynistic attitudes. Let me know when you get punched in the face the next time so I can make an in-depth analysis on how you were asking for it and how everyone should just humiliate you, instead of offering support.

Second, let's think about it, as you so sagely suggested:
1) You're policing how other people should dress. I'm telling you it's none of your business.
2) You're calling it a woman's fault if she gets raped or harrassed. I call it the harrasser's/rapist's fault. Even if we all wore niqabs, there'd still be rapes. Rapes and harrassment end, when the rapists and harrassers stop raping and harrassing.
3) You're saying "don't expect to have an intelligent conversation while wearing X". This might come as a surprise to you, but when I walk in the street minding my business, I'm actually not looking for a conversation or interaction with strangers. I'm walking in the street, minding my business. If I want to have a conversation, I converse. If I want to have someone's opinion on how I look, I ask for it. "How do I look?"
4) You're saying women should wear a sweater, because "it also looks nicer". This might be the second big surprise of the night, but like I already hinted towards it: I don't dress to please strangers in the street. I don't give the first letter of a fuck if you or anyone else likes my choice of sweater or not. My clothes, my body, my business. Not yours. I don't want to hear any random guy's opinion on me, whether it's supposedly positive or negative. I don't go around in the fantastic, medieval city centre, giving clothing advice and judgment. "Nice glasses, man, but you might want to work that ass."
5) "You're not trying to be a sexist." That's nice, so it came without trying. Good work, mate.

Finally, while you're perfectly allowed to express such an enlightened, modern and respectful opinion, I will be a terrible spoilsport and call it victim-blaming of rather poor quality. I give it an eight out of ten in bigotry, but zero in novelty and style. Next one, please.

Hugs and kisses.

[Bella]

with this in mind, it seems i am not a feminist, but a humanist.

Do you believe that people of all sexes and genders (and gender identities + presentations) deserve equal rights? If so, then yes, you ARE a feminist. Whether or not you choose to use that term for yourself.

It's a common tactic by anti-equality folk to depict feminism as a movement that espouses the superiority of women over men (and people of other genders). This is NOT an accurate representation of feminism** - but a strawman tactic devised to strip feminists of credibility and public legitimacy. Any feminist worth their salt will tell you that they are gender-egalitarian and that they stand behind feminism because they seek to elevate women (both cisgender and trans*) to a position of equality with men. In feminism, there is no superiority, no inferiority. Just equality.

As well, feminists stand for choice in all areas of life - a woman's choice to shave her body or go au natural, to wear makeup or not, to present a femme or butch identity, to date or not date, to remain a virgin until marriage or have sex outside of matrimony. Or to never have sex at all. And anything in-between. I would NOT trust the word of any "feminist" who claims that there are certain life-trajectories that are more inherently feminist than others - as long as she is a proponent of equality, a married, high school-educated stay-at-home mom with five kids can be just as good a feminist as an unmarried career woman with a couple BA's and a PhD to her name. As well, men, agender and genderqueer people can be just as good feminists as women.

**I should note here that some so-called adherents of "feminism" do believe in female superiority. Namely, this happens within the radical feminist or "radfem" community. Bear in mind that this is a tiny, tiny minority within the feminist community, and the vast majority of real feminists treat radfems with varying levels of disgust. Radfems are often EXTREMELY anti-trans* (going as far to claim that transwomen are "just men" who want to creep on women / infiltrate female spaces, and that transmen are "just women" who want to side with the patriarchy by presenting as male), anti-sex - in particular, any forms of sex that involve penises, viewing it as a form of assault, more or less - and often have strong gender-separatist and biological-essentialist leanings. In practice, they're startlingly close to conservatives on their views on trans* rights, gender and biology. And they should no be treated as feminists.

[LeaflameSD]

Wow, I almost sniped someone's post.

@Pitkin: Ah, I see. Maybe my opinion is kind of invalid and big-headed. I'm sorry....

Righty-oh, new... topic?:
Animal testing.

[NejinOniwa]

Berlin, 1935. Two germans are watching a pair of SS officers chasing a group of jews through the street.
"Why do zey keep asking for trouble like zat?" Says one of the germans. The other nods in agreement. "If zey just stopped controlling all ze banks and agreed to wear ze yellow star like zey should, zey would have no SS officers chasing them. Why do zey keep resisting when zey are ze ones at fault?" The first german sighs and shakes his head as the two walk away from the scene. "Zey know zey are Jews. Zey shouldn't expect anything but trouble when they act like zat."


In case you didn't get it, Leaf, this is the same reasoning you're trying to apply, except with women everywhere in the world instead of Jews in Nazi Germany.

[LeaflameSD]

I get it Nejin, I get it...