OS-tan Theory Revival

[stewartsage]

No offense to you man, but it keeps coming up.

I'm just grumpily anti-magic.

[NejinOniwa]

The body of a Tan is not magically crafted by the Tan herself. It is a physical manifestation of her Code pool, powered by her Nodes (systems under her control) and eventual Descendant Nodes (nodes under control of her directly coded descendants or otherwise corporately connected ones). Just like a Tan cannot function without Nodes, her Nodes cannot function without her. The death of a Tan's nodes means the death of herself, but just as surely the death of the Tan means the death of the nodes and the system. This is the reason Necromancy was needed to revive Colossus - without Colossus herself, the system would not be functional no matter how well built-together it was.

The Tan is the Soul of the Machine.

Can I just say the only reason I never post anything productive here is because I don't believe in 90% of it?

That's all.

So let me say again; SAGE is not a sorceress.  She doesn't wield 'magic'.  She did not create her own corporeal form.

Could you detail yourself a bit? Do you reject the entire system of Code, and in that case what do you have in its place? I'm curious.

[Bella]

@Stew: You need to end the confusion and write down some details about SAGE's (non)powers. *pokes furiously with wiki-editing fingers*

@Genpop: My personal theories on OS-tans and magic is varied. Basically...

-I don't believe that straight-up hardware-tans have any magical powers to speak of. I envision them as fairly run-of-the-mill "artificial human"-types. While they do have super-human powers, they tend to be physical and/or mental - for instance, great strength or physical agility (System/360-kun, PDP-10-tan) or heightened intellectual ability (particularly in scientific / mathematical / logic-based fields).

-The magical ability of software-hardware hybrids is somewhat varied. Some take after their hardware sides, so to speak (for instance, Commodore 64- and VIC-20-tan are software-hardware hybrids but they've never been depicted with magical abilities to the best of my knowledge). Other hardware-software hybrids are highly magical (LISP Machine-tan).

-In my personal OS-tan canon / headcanon, magical ability was originally uncommon even among OS-tans. MCP-tan (circa 1961) is supposed to be the first "proper" sorceress in my canon. CTSS-tan was powerless, but her daughter, Multics-tan, was purposefully designed with a high level of magical ability. Multics' descendants - the Unices, Linuces, and various Multics-like OS-tans - are supposed to be the most powerful sorceresses.

-On that note, the MIT OS-tans are supposed to be more magically-disposed than the majority of their other academic system peers (hence the lack of outward magical ability among the MTS, UMES, MUSIC/SP, OS^3-tan and others I can't recall at the moment). The DEC-tans have several magic-wielders in their ranks, however their abilities tend to be less powerful. DTSS-tan and BTSS-tan also have magical powers, although they're quite specialized in scope. Emacs-kun is the only confirmed male, software-tan magic-wielder, however he's a marked exception.

-As for birth / creation - again, I envision them as biological and human-like in almost every way (i.e., they need nutrition, sleep, can become injured, etc.), however they aren't biologically human since they don't have human DNA. Instead, the "instruction set" that controls the development / continued  existence is "(source) code", which is pretty much analogous to DNA except artificially-created and carrying with it the ability to imbue data-manipulation abilities (which is simply what OS-tan "magic" is). Humans are the ones who oversee their creation - sometimes a -tan is made from scratch, other times they are derived from the code of one or more OS-tans.

-The only OS-tans who use a code pool, in my stories, are the Unices and Linuces to a lesser extent. The rest of the OS-tans generate their own magical ability / life force.

[Nichi]

With magic in my stories, it depends on the character. Most, like 2k, typically rely on technology and more traditional weapons, while some (Neptune, for instance) do have supernatural powers. It just depends on what I feel works for the character in question

[Bella]

With magic in my stories, it depends on the character. Most, like 2k, typically rely on technology and more traditional weapons, while some (Neptune, for instance) do have supernatural powers. It just depends on what I feel works for the character in question

Yes. This. Pretty much.

[alfonso_rd_30]

With magic in my stories, it depends on the character. Most, like 2k, typically rely on technology and more traditional weapons, while some (Neptune, for instance) do have supernatural powers. It just depends on what I feel works for the character in question

Yes. This. Pretty much.

yup... I only interjected because it made no sense to me the theory of Kami SAGE being an invent of SAGE... not to start a War about Sourcery...

[Bella]

Don't feel at fault, there's always been a debate over the nature of OS-tans and their powers. It's nothing new and nothing to be bothered by, IMO - everyone should be able to interpret the OS-tan universe as they see fit. That's why this is a "theories" thread - not a "facts" one.

[Aurora Borealis]

@Bella: For the characters who don't use code pools, is their life force still dependent on the existence of compatible hardware to draw their power from? The code pool the Unices and Linuces have is their a large, shared set of code they can draw from, correct? Just want to make sure I'm not getting this mixed up.

I thought as a reference to the history of their hardware:

-Apple I-tan's health declining had a sudden onset, corresponding to when many Apple I users traded in their Apple Is for an Apple II at a discount in 1978; those traded in Apple Is were destroyed.

-In C-Chan's original concept, Lisa-tan's melancholy state also had a sudden onset, corresponding to the dumping of thousands of unsold Lisa units in 1989.

-Commodore 264-tan (originally just Plus/4-tan, but also represents the C16 and C116) is physically frail because the Plus/4's video chip has a high failure rate.

-Because of vast amount of hardware support QNX acquired (largely in the form of automobiles, medical devices and nuclear power plants), QNX-tan became one of the most powerful living OS-tans.

-Assuming that IMSAI 8080-tan also represents the IMSAI Series Two line (made in the 2000's as a hobbyist revival), she has become more powerful magically than she ever was. Although she can never get her political power back, her gains give her something to boast about to her past rivals.

======

I see C64-tan as having a good amount of innate magical ability, since the C64's hardware specs were good for its time. She would also have a lot of spell-books, because of the C64's huge software library, and could do a lot of elaborate spells because of the C64's amazing demoscene. She would use those demoscene spells just for show. I think despite her magic abilities, she would take more pride in the various gadgets and hardware mods she built; in fanon, C64-tan likes to tinker with old hardware.

The VIC-20 was an underpowered machine even upon debut, so VIC-20-tan is physically and magically frail, making up for it with fierce training and hot-blooded determination. She would also have several spellbooks, but needs assistance using most her spells (the better VIC-20 software requires the 16K RAM extension).

C65-tan is very powerful by design, the most magically powerful of the 8-bit Commodore-tans, or even the most magically powerful of the 8-bit computer-tans. She is never able to reach that potential, being a cancelled and unreleased system. Somehow she is still alive, having cheated death for several years now.

[stewartsage]

Could you detail yourself a bit? Do you reject the entire system of Code, and in that case what do you have in its place? I'm curious.

No no, I don't subscribe to it for most of the vintage OSs from the early 1960s back.  That's pretty much it.

SAGE runs off belief and strawberry Yoohoo.

[NejinOniwa]

@Stew: You need to end the confusion and write down some details about SAGE's (non)powers. *pokes furiously with wiki-editing fingers*

@Genpop: My personal theories on OS-tans and magic is varied. Basically...

-I don't believe that straight-up hardware-tans have any magical powers to speak of. I envision them as fairly run-of-the-mill "artificial human"-types. While they do have super-human powers, they tend to be physical and/or mental - for instance, great strength or physical agility (System/360-kun, PDP-10-tan) or heightened intellectual ability (particularly in scientific / mathematical / logic-based fields).

-The magical ability of software-hardware hybrids is somewhat varied. Some take after their hardware sides, so to speak (for instance, Commodore 64- and VIC-20-tan are software-hardware hybrids but they've never been depicted with magical abilities to the best of my knowledge). Other hardware-software hybrids are highly magical (LISP Machine-tan).

-In my personal OS-tan canon / headcanon, magical ability was originally uncommon even among OS-tans. MCP-tan (circa 1961) is supposed to be the first "proper" sorceress in my canon. CTSS-tan was powerless, but her daughter, Multics-tan, was purposefully designed with a high level of magical ability. Multics' descendants - the Unices, Linuces, and various Multics-like OS-tans - are supposed to be the most powerful sorceresses.

-On that note, the MIT OS-tans are supposed to be more magically-disposed than the majority of their other academic system peers (hence the lack of outward magical ability among the MTS, UMES, MUSIC/SP, OS^3-tan and others I can't recall at the moment). The DEC-tans have several magic-wielders in their ranks, however their abilities tend to be less powerful. DTSS-tan and BTSS-tan also have magical powers, although they're quite specialized in scope. Emacs-kun is the only confirmed male, software-tan magic-wielder, however he's a marked exception.

-As for birth / creation - again, I envision them as biological and human-like in almost every way (i.e., they need nutrition, sleep, can become injured, etc.), however they aren't biologically human since they don't have human DNA. Instead, the "instruction set" that controls the development / continued  existence is "(source) code", which is pretty much analogous to DNA except artificially-created and carrying with it the ability to imbue data-manipulation abilities (which is simply what OS-tan "magic" is). Humans are the ones who oversee their creation - sometimes a -tan is made from scratch, other times they are derived from the code of one or more OS-tans.

-The only OS-tans who use a code pool, in my stories, are the Unices and Linuces to a lesser extent. The rest of the OS-tans generate their own magical ability / life force.

First, I feel like I have to clarify what I mean with code pool. A code pool is the amount of lifeforce/magic/code available to a Tan at any given moment. While some groups of Tans put their pools together by one means or another, making a "collective" code pool and practically guaranteeing them to never actually "run out" per se - which is the mechanism I believe you refer to as "code pool" - every Tan has one. Much like every human has a stock of carbohydrates and fat in their body to burn for energy, every Tan has a code pool.

The idea you're running with earlier Tans being less magical in nature is pretty much in line with what I have in mind as well. For one thing, the concept of codespace, Open or Closed, doesn't even really exist until the advent of networking, in my opinion. For example, Colossus-tan is a talented codebreaker and calculator, skilled at subterfuge and single combat thanks to her great physical strength. Her actual magical skills, such as altering her body size and hacking into Closed Space, don't come into play until later - after her resurrection. "Magic" wasn't used as a term until very late in the game. I'll be extrapolating a lot more on this difference between early and late Tans and their abilities in future chapters of Beyond Ultra Secret and related OMEGA materials.

[Bella]

D'oh! Thanks for clarifying that Nej, for some reason I was thinking that "code pool" referred to the combined power of a bloodline. (For instance, Unix-tan drawing life force/sustenance from of her children.) Also, I can get behind the idea of networking = code-space, since I was kind of working on that assumption as well.

@Bella: For the characters who don't use code pools, is their life force still dependent on the existence of compatible hardware to draw their power from? The code pool the Unices and Linuces have is their a large, shared set of code they can draw from, correct? Just want to make sure I'm not getting this mixed up.

Refer to my answer to Nej on the first point. You're correct about the Linuces and Unices having some sort of shared life-force, although in their cases, I imagine their matriarchs benefit the most from this shared life-force. This goes back to the reaaaaaallly old theory that Unix-tan is being kept alive mostly by her children (which has become slightly less relevant with the discovery of the existence of emulated research Unix systems / modern research Unix versions), however it's never been "retconned" from the Unix-tans' backstory.

-Apple I-tan's health declining had a sudden onset, corresponding to when many Apple I users traded in their Apple Is for an Apple II at a discount in 1978; those traded in Apple Is were destroyed.

-In C-Chan's original concept, Lisa-tan's melancholy state also had a sudden onset, corresponding to the dumping of thousands of unsold Lisa units in 1989.

-Commodore 264-tan (originally just Plus/4-tan, but also represents the C16 and C116) is physically frail because the Plus/4's video chip has a high failure rate.

-Because of vast amount of hardware support QNX acquired (largely in the form of automobiles, medical devices and nuclear power plants), QNX-tan became one of the most powerful living OS-tans.

-Assuming that IMSAI 8080-tan also represents the IMSAI Series Two line (made in the 2000's as a hobbyist revival), she has become more powerful magically than she ever was. Although she can never get her political power back, her gains give her something to boast about to her past rivals.

That's good to know! Now that I think of it, I can name some instances of character change being brought about by real-world system changes.

-Multics-tan's health got better with the introduction of commercial Multics systems (1971) and declined with the end of system development (1985).

-Unix-tan's health declined with the onset of the Unix Wars.

-Linux-tan has gotten stronger and stronger as GNU/Linux systems have taken over more and more markets (first in the 1990s with servers and supercomputers, more recently with mobile devices).

There are other I could name, but these are the ones that popped up off the top of my head.

I see C64-tan as having a good amount of innate magical ability, since the C64's hardware specs were good for its time. She would also have a lot of spell-books, because of the C64's huge software library, and could do a lot of elaborate spells because of the C64's amazing demoscene. She would use those demoscene spells just for show. I think despite her magic abilities, she would take more pride in the various gadgets and hardware mods she built; in fanon, C64-tan likes to tinker with old hardware.

The VIC-20 was an underpowered machine even upon debut, so VIC-20-tan is physically and magically frail, making up for it with fierce training and hot-blooded determination. She would also have several spellbooks, but needs assistance using most her spells (the better VIC-20 software requires the 16K RAM extension).

C65-tan is very powerful by design, the most magically powerful of the 8-bit Commodore-tans, or even the most magically powerful of the 8-bit computer-tans. She is never able to reach that potential, being a cancelled and unreleased system. Somehow she is still alive, having cheated death for several years now.

Huh, I didn't know any of that. Has this info been jotted down in their wiki articles?

[Bella]

SO GUYS. I NEED INPUT ON SOMETHING.

Recently I've been working on making a GeneraOS-tan and Lisp Machine-tan. Which is all well and good, except I keep running into a very big problem: These two characters are heavily involved in ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, a field which has never been properly "translated" into OS-tan Universe terms.

This is the FOLDOC definition of artificial intelligence:

The subfield of computer science concerned with the concepts and methods of symbolic inference by computer and symbolic knowledge representation for use in making inferences. AI can be seen as an attempt to model aspects of human thought on computers. It is also sometimes defined as trying to solve by computer any problem that a human can solve faster.

So, uh, how can that translate to OS-tan terms? Considering that OS-tans - who ARE the computers of their universe, only living, breathing creatures instead of inanimate machines - are already sufficiently humanoid in thought process? Personally, I'm leaning toward AI being the study of artificial intelligence as its known in the OS-tan universe - that is to say, the scientific study of OS-tans themselves, but that comes off as a bit weak to me and I'll gladly hear other theories.

[NejinOniwa]

Hummmmm.

This point needs to be broached at some point when it's not 4:38AM and I'm just about to go to bed... >_>

It has interesting possibilities, to say the least.

[Bella]

No worries Nej, I'll be here tomorrow. (´・ω・）

In the meantime: Any other takers?

[Simonorged]

Interesting.