OS-tan Theory Revival

[Bella]

Don't worry, I didn't forget about the other co-founders and I know their primary aim was to give vintage OS-tans sanctuary during the OS Wars ... I just think that Miggy would be the most concerned with the plight of the unwillingly-hobbyist-OS-tans. ^^;

Of course, some of the Vintage-tans are sociable enough that they wouldn't mind doing re-enactments and entertaining people, such as Atari ST-tan, C64-tan and Spectrum-tan. But not requiring all vintage-tans to be entertainers to prove their worth is great for the more timid and reclusive such as Adam-tan, Lisa-tan and RT-11-tan.

You're completely right. ^^

I like that distinction between hobby and working, hobby only and completely retired. When updating the articles for each of the Vintage-tans or any other long-discontinued system that's still alive, something about their status should be added.

I had this in mind too! Actually, the thought to make a distinction between working, hobby and retired OS-tans came when I was working on wiki articles for some of the PDP-11 OS-tans. The term "Hobbyist system" kept showing up and I started to wonder, "Wait - how does this translate into OS-tan terms, exactly?"

I'm stuck trying to figure this out, but one question at a time, what vintage and historical systems are alive, hobbyist -and- working?

That's a good question... there are plenty of alive and working historical OS-tans (this is especially true of obscure mainframe-tans like MCP and OpenVME-tan), but working AND hobbyist OS-tans are harder to pin down. I'd wager a guess that PDP-11 and VAX-tan (and various OS-tans associated with them) are among their rank, possibly some of the Data General-tans and IBM mainframe-tans too.

[Aurora Borealis]

Do you define 'working' as 'still currently has some practical use', or 'still has commercial use'?

Windows 3.1 and MS DOS may be hobbyist and working OSes. Windows 3.1 is used as an embedded OS. In fact, it wasn't until 2008 that MS stopped selling copies of 3.1! That kind of gives me an alternate interpretation of 3.1's backstory, that she didn't become completely melancholy and closed off. Instead, she got a new lease on life when she entered the embedded market after her obsolescence, but maybe she had to keep that secret as to not upset the family balance.

I also know that some schools still use Mac OS9 because some very important software used in some schools doesn't have an OSX version or good equivalent. Not sure about the older Mac OSes though.

[Bella]

Do you define 'working' as 'still currently has some practical use', or 'still has commercial use'?

This exactly.

Windows 3.1 and MS DOS may be hobbyist and working OSes. Windows 3.1 is used as an embedded OS. In fact, it wasn't until 2008 that MS stopped selling copies of 3.1! That kind of gives me an alternate interpretation of 3.1's backstory, that she didn't become completely melancholy and closed off. Instead, she got a new lease on life when she entered the embedded market after her obsolescence, but maybe she had to keep that secret as to not upset the family balance.

That's really amazing, I had no idea that 3.1 had found a second life as an embedded OS! I can personally vouch that MS-DOS is still being used in business, some shops in my town still run DOS-based systems.

I am a bit confused how this fact would fit into 3.1-tan's story - I like your idea of her having a job but keeping it secret from the other Win-tans, because that sounds like something she'd do. ^^;

[Aurora Borealis]

I wouldn't have guessed that 3.1 was still widely used either! 3.1-tan does have kind of a double-life. Another aspect to her double life is that she's also the only Windows-tan in the Windows Family who knows 3.2-tan's origins. Speaking of which, there was a story I was working on, I have a few parts of it done, of 3.2-tan's backstory and in one of the arcs, she meets 3.1-tan for the first time. 3.2-tan can't trust most of the Windows-tans because she's been attacked by many malicious bootleg-tans who look like them, but she ended up trusting 3.1-tan.

On another note, 3.1-tan is probably also more badass than others think she is since some of her competitors in the embedded market sure are daunting!

That's cool seeing DOS systems still running in your area.

Windows 1.0 and 2.0 are hobbyist-only of course. I don't know who the oldest Mac-tan who can claim to be hobbyist and 'working' is though. I can however say that I was able to find a practical use for running System 6, which for a while I used when typing up papers. Still considered a great OS for creative writing with few distractions, but probably doesn't have any remaining commercial use so I'm not sure if that counts.

On the other hand, I wouldn't count System 1 as a working OS in the present day since its usability was already limited for its time.

OS/2 is another OS that is vintage, hobbyist and working. Would Amiga count too? It's hobbyist and working, but might or might not be considered vintage because it is currently maintained.

[Bella]

In regards to 3.1-tan - that sounds about right. I've always sort of assumed she was more mature/competent than her looks let on, so it's no stretch of the imagination to think that she holds down a job as well. And I can completely envision 3.1-tan being a covert badass too.

Yes, I recall you mentioning using System 6 for writing papers! Coincidentally, the kid who traded me those TRS-80s owned a Macintosh Plus and once brought it to school to type up some assignments on ...

OS/2 is an excellent example of a vintage OS that's still working and used for hobby purposes. I'm not sure if the Amiga would count, but for a different reason - are Amigas still used for commercial work purposes?

[Bella]

Theory: UNIX-SAMA WAS A PART OF THE DEC FACTION FOR A TIME.

Supporting Evidence: DEC RELEASED AN IN-HOUSE VERSION OF UNIX SYSTEM 7.

In-Story Implications: Unix-sama in a DEC uniform. PDP-11-tan no longer having to travel to creep on Unix. VMS-tan dying a little a lot inside.

Out-Of-Story Implications: We're all going to have to get our little bottles of white-out and Canon Retcon pens out, 'cause this changes DEC-tan history. Quite.

Pros:
-Neatly explains how Ultrix-tan ended up in the DEC Faction.
-Happened toward the end of the 1970s/early 1980s, and nobody really knows what the hell Unix-sama was up to during that time anyway, so there are no conflicts in Unix's backstory.
-Has fascinating storyline potential.
-Unix showing up where the DEC-tans live to personally torment them is an excellent source of comedic material.

Cons:
-Sort of contradicts recorded DEC-tan history?
-Makes comprehending the already-complex DEC-Unix relationship even more confusing.

EDIT: WHOA! DEC's Unix Engineering Group (who created V7M Unix and Ultrix) was HQ'd in Nashua, NH! Which presents the relevant-to-my-interests implication that Unix-sama was simultaneously a DEC-tan and New Hampshirite for a time.

[NejinOniwa]

RELEVANCE TO MY INTERESTS=HIGH

This material will be used :3

[Bella]

Really then? : o

[NejinOniwa]

Whenever I get off my bootlegs and start writing not ponies again -.-

[Bella]

*pokes Nej in attempt to motivate him*

Anyway, you guys I really have to stop reading the Wikipedia Talk pages on various vintage/historic computer articles.... they're chock full of personal stories and anecdotes, but it could all be apocryphal. Case in point, I ran across this snippet on the Talk page for DTSS:

I agree, DTSS was very important. It was the template for many commercial time sharing systems, including Control Data's KRONOS and NOS systems, HP's timesharing systems, and UNIVAX's RTB (real time basic) system. Probably others as well. The history of operating systems often appears MIT-centric, but I think that is partly a matter of bias. Contemporary work simply has not gotten the same attention.

(I tried to further explore the possible relation between KRONOS, NOS and DTSS via Google, but only turned up a couple of blog posts suggesting a relationship, noting with any decent sources though.)

Suddenly i had a flash...... KRONOS-kun, NOS-tan's kid - NOS/VE-tan - and DTSS-tan all have the same freakin' blue eyes/light blonde hair color scheme. Way to give me a new headcanon, Talk poster. : (

[Aurora Borealis]

Unix being part of the DECs for a while sounds really interesting, but I am concerned how to fit that in without retconning a ton of things. I had thought that during the late 70's and early 80's, Unix was in the process of building her empire, and an attempt at an alliance was made in the early 80's. Their alliance was marked by Ultrix's creation, akin to a child produced from a political marriage between royal houses. Of course when the Unix Family and DECs fought each other again, it's not like Ultrix could be tossed aside. She was as much of a DEC as the native DEC-tans, but her being a Unix led to her being widely distrusted by the native DECs.

[Bella]

I've considered the impact it would have on everyone's backstory and how we could go about fitting it in with what's already been established. You're correct that Unix-tan was building her empire by the late 1970s, but also remember that this was around the point that she started to "sell out" to a certain extent - seeking out alliances with basically anyone she could and becoming somewhat more greedy/capitalistic than she had originally been. I don't think it would be a particularly jarring to Unix-tan's backstory to say that she collaborated with the DECs for a short time, especially since it seems that her inclusion did little more than secure a place for future generations of Unix-tans within the DEC faction.*

(*This is based on the real-world fact that DEC's Unix V7M didn't seem to be particularly popular [there's very little documentation about it online] or have any impact on the success of the homegrown DEC OSes.)

To be honest, I'd never really thought of Ultrix-tan being analogous to a child produced from a political marriage, but that metaphor fits perfectly.

In regards to the DEC-Unix conflict, I now view it as being less monolithic than I did when I first envisioned it years ago. PDP-11 and VAX-tan probably would have welcomed the inclusion of Unix-tans into their faction, while the PDP-11 OS-tans and VMS would have (understandably) viewed the Unices as a risk to their dominance. PDP-10-tan and her OSes would have viewed them as a dire threat as well, due to their place as historic enemies and the damage that had already been inflicted upon their livelihoods by the VAX-Unix alliance. However, the DEC-tans would have been trained to keep a nice cohesive façade at all times, so it seems unlikely that they ever would have publicly voiced opposition - though there was likely a lot of that going on behind the scenes.

[Nichi]

WMG: OS/2-tan is a fan of James Bond films

This is something I thought of last night, while watching Goldeneye for the first time. Throughout the film, you can see the OS/2 Warp 3.0 splash screen displayed on some of the computer monitors, as part of the product placement for IBM (You also see PC-ATs and PS/2s frequently, as well). The OS/2 splash screen is most easily spotted during the pen grenade scene from towards the end; in which you can more clearly see it on the monitor. It's also mentioned in Wikipedia's article on the film, in the "product placements" section, for the curious.

Given that detail, it makes sense to me that OS/2-tan would also enjoy the Bond films; after all, it's already known that she's a Trekkie, since people involved with Star Trek helped promote the OS back in the day.

Thoughts?

[Bella]

Nice catch. I don't really have anything to add, besides adding it to the Theories list in the wiki if you'd like.

[Nichi]

If you want to add it, go for it :3