OS-tan Theory Revival

[Krizonar]

I had written a long post here, but it can be summarized to the 'walled garden' promotes Mac to Mac teamwork and family values, which is stuff they like. I don't see any reason any Mac would dislike a supposed walled garden as the concept fits their culture well.

[Bella]

any particular one you'd like to start with? i'm familiar with windows and mac, so for the wanderer class, BR, and others you might have to wait till bella's awake. xD

Actually, I would wager a guess that Aurora knows far more about the BR than I do. Though I do know it was founded by Amiga-tan with the funding of Unix-sama to serve as some sort of sanctuary for old OS-tans who would otherwise go useless or homeless.

There isn't much to say about the wander class - they're either unaffiliated OS-tans, OS-tans who have lost their faction/family and now live independent of others, or LITERAL travelers or vagrants.

My knowledge of OS-tan factions is limited mostly to the Linux Unix Consortium, the MIT-tan society and the DEC-tan society. Aurora knows more about the others, including the User Space Gang. Stew knows the most about the IBM-tans, CDC-tans, IAS machine family and any military computer-tans.

[Aurora Borealis]

@Krizo: I didn't think of it like that, apparently I was accentuating the negative. I was thinking of it from the perspective that Apple hardware as a whole is now more closed off than it was before, though I overlooked the fact that the Mac platform in the 80's was one of, if not the most closed-off system for its time with no hardware modding allowed for years. So if the Macs had a walled garden from the start wouldn't be out of place (though it would be Apple II-tan who would be alienated by it!). When I was typing up these conjectures, it was late in the night for me and I wasn't totally thinking things through! ^^;

I also overlooked that it's just the iOS devices that are completely closed off while Macs can still get apps from outside sources. When I was thinking of the 'walled garden', I was thinking of the iOS platform and its influence on Apple's policies over the past few years, which I thought would further restrict the Mac-tans' limited freedom to interact with others, and maybe I was thinking of how those policies could end up creating another large generation gap within the family.

So, the best way to actually describe this is that when an outsider wants to visit any of the Mac-tans, they must be approved of course, and they must be the ones to visit the Macs, not the other way around! This ends up giving off the image that the Macs are elitist and aloof, and even assumed to have poor social skills, but are actually a lot more sociable than they appear to be; they're just following the walled garden policies, which they might not totally agree with, but they do promote some good values which makes them worth keeping. Also for the longest time, despite their closed-off policies (which violate many of the old-school hacker ideals), the early Macs still managed to convey a counter-cultural image!

I'd also like to say that the walled garden policies hasn't destroyed most Macs' sense of adventure! The Classics visit the Binteeji Renmei often, or visit A/UX; Tiger, (Snow) Leopard and Lion have their own rebellious streak, daring to leave the house to meet unapproved hardware-tans!

[Bella]

I'd also like to say that the walled garden policies hasn't destroyed most Macs' sense of adventure! The Classics visit the Binteeji Renmei often, or visit A/UX; Tiger, (Snow) Leopard and Lion have their own rebellious streak, daring to leave the house to meet unapproved hardware-tans!

(Snow) Leopard-tan doesn't seem to give two fscks about company policy, and may or may not see herself more beholden to the Unices than the Mac family.

[Chocofreak13]

i would imagine that the walled garden policy wouldn't extend that far. far, yes, but not THAT far.
for example, in the OS-tan Comiket, Sonata meets 2k at a grocery store. it's then mentioned that the two met for coffee a few times before Sonata went to the Windows house.
While i imagine that some of the Macs would enforce the walled garden policy as the word of god, but the majority of the Macs would probably be a bit more lax about it. (however, if one of the die-hards finds out, i wouldn't expect it to be pretty. :3)

also, in terms of the way the Windows and Mac houses are run, in my Comiket, both are run with a Japanese-style of the older members of the house controlling all affairs. However, given the peaceful nature of both 3.1 and NT, the Windows family has a more diplomatic approach. The Macs are run by Apple II, but often times she's away, leaving Capone to take charge.....leading to a more heavy-handed approach in dealing with other factions.
Also, i support the Mac mafia view. but since OS-tans originate from japan, it makes sense that they would be based more off the Yakuza. xD

[Aurora Borealis]

I like that. Makes sense that some of the Macs would or wouldn't be so strict about the policy. Maybe a milder example of their policies when outside the house are needing to report to the family where they are every so often? Most of the Macs prefer to be more formal though, with the "we don't come to you, you come to us" ideal, but that's not completely set in stone.

The Macs who follow the policy the most strictly are OSX Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar and Panther; they just don't have that same sense of adventure that most of the other Macs do. Jaguar-tan might, but prefers to stay home to show solidarity with the other early OSXs. It may have been System 1-tan who started the whole walled garden policy out of her own paranoia, but she's gotten more relaxed about that in recent years. Being semi-retired and being affiliated with the BR part-time probably helps.

Apple II-tan lives at the Binteeji Renmei, but it's a safe bet to say that she's allowed to visit often, and the Macs greatly respect her. The Apple II platform is very open unlike the Macs, but maybe when Apple II is there, the walled garden policies are more relaxed?

I thought of Capone as being a wanderer who left the family out of shame due to the OS Wars, but maybe she's back with a vengeance in your story? Also makes me wonder why the older Macs would agree to Capone's leadership... Or maybe they don't because Capone's measures tend to be drastic, but don't want to cause trouble and threaten family stability?

[Chocofreak13]

the reason is more the latter. and as for Capone's presence, i considered her such a fierce family fighter that she wouldn't abandon them till she was dead. despite being crazy, she does love them, even if she may have a slight personality disorder. :\

i didn't know that Apple II didn't live there. it's something to keep in mind, but i wanted to keep her the matriarch, so maybe she'll split her time between the BR and the Mac House.

i should also note that the Mac-kuns strike me as not caring nearly as much about their sisters' policies.

that said, the walled garden policy seems like the kind of thing that suits the macs (considering that you have to use mac-specific hardware as well as software). i'll have to come up with a way to include that in the comic (it's good, since most of what i have now is in storyboarding rather than full comic).

are you cool with the way the families are organized? what else do you want to disuss about them?

[Aurora Borealis]

There are a few other Mac-tans who are fierce fighters, but Capone is the most outspoken among them, and I'd say that in your interpretation, she ends up as the leader by default for that reason when Apple II is away. The other fierce fighters among the Mac-tans either avoid conflict (having mostly retired from fighting unless necessary, such as System 1-tan, and 7-tan) or -try- to avoid it in the case of the more boisterous Macs (such as System 6-tan, 8-tan and Tiger-tan)

Having Apple II splitting her time between both of the factions will work! While Apple II is away at the Mac House, GS/OS usually stays at the BR to continue where II left off with her work.

I agree with the family structures for each.

[Krizonar]

As the main Mac person here. I'm curious as to how 7.5 is in such a place of power, where a year ago, she didn't seem to be. Did I miss something?

I am worried about where 7.5 would fit in my version, as I would consider her the same character as 7 (much like how I consider 9 and 9.1 the same character). I suppose there were numerous changes and she might indeed warrant her own character in my universe, but it still confuses me as to why she has her own character.

I have no concern with her being the default battle leader as explained by your posts as that is sensible.

I would also like a list of the Macs that currently live (in a permanent state, mind you) at the home in your continuities/versions, as for my version, we have
Antares Tan
Pleiades Tan
Sonata Tan
Rhapsody Tan
Mac Tan
Cheetah Tan
Puma Tan
Jaguar Tan
Panther Tan
Tiger Tan
Leopard Tan
Lion Tan
iOS Tan (although I have never seen an official rendition of her)

[Nichi]

Well, I have some feedback on something I did notice, looking through the first section. I saw mentioning of how Neptune is closely related to 2k, so I figured I might as well chime in on Neptune's role in the story I'm currently writing; since, at least from what I can see, my story is likely the only characterization Neptune-tan is likely to get.

In my story, Neptune is 2k's sister; the two spending a majority of their childhood together while in training. However, while 2k graduated from training and went on to become quite successful, Neptune was abandoned; left out on the streets to die, which is where her hate of the Windows family, especially 2k and ME (Her replacement), began.

She was eventually approached by a mysterious man, who gave her a second chance in the way of training her to become an assassin, sent to take out those deemed obsolete in the Windows homeland. Thus, she became the assassin simply known as "The Reaper"; lying in wait for when she's given the go-ahead to take out someone. While normally she's bound by contract to only kill those deemed obsolete within the Windows homeland, she does have permission to take out anyone who learns too much about her true identity; unfortunately earning Sonata a place on her most-wanted list.

That's what I have for her character thus far. I'm still writing the story, so any feedback on details to change with her character would be appreciated; since it does tie into one of the topics at hand.

[Aurora Borealis]

@Krizo: There are some alternate character and faction interpretations in play, all of which are equally valid. Think of it as we all agree on the general aspects of the Mac House, but the specifics are interpreted differently- most notably Capone's role or lack of, and if all Mac-tans are permanent members of the faction.

As for Capone/7.5-tan, she is interpreted as any of the following:
1. A wanderer who left the Mac House years ago (this is what I usually interpret her as)
2. A member of the Mac House (Choco's interpretation)
3. Not there at all (your interpretation, and how I used to interpret her)

Suggestions 1 and 2 aren't mutually exclusive.

With the Mac House membership, there are two suggestions:
1. C-Chan's original Annex Project- All the Mac-tans (that were created at the time) are permanent House of Mac members.
2. Some of the Macs are permanent members, others are semi-retired (this is what we both follow)


@Pentium: Sounds good! Her backstory has some parallels with OS/2-tan, and the two of them could have been friends, united in their hatred of the Windows Family, if it weren't for Neptune being a Windows-tan herself! Of course, if OS/2 doesn't know Neptune's true identity, they could get along.

The Windows-tans who would be the most scared of her are those who are wanderers (3.2, 97, 95 OSR 2.1, OSR 2.5, Odyssey) since they are unsupported and completely on their own. At least the Windows Family has strength in numbers.

[Nichi]

True on that, although OS/2-tan isn't in my story.

As for the factions, yeah; I could see the wanderers being afraid of her, although even the ones in the main Windows Family house fear her (2k's reaction to stumbling onto her EOL Notice at the end of Tales of Insanity, which serves as a lead-in for the story I'm writing now, sums that up well).

[Krizonar]

Understood and I have no further concerns.
As for the operating systems I don't know anything about, I'll read, but not comment, as others probably know better.

[Chocofreak13]

@kriz: any particular reason you want a list of the macs?

the ones i have in the comic so far are:
Apple I (though only in pictures)
Apple II
Lisa (only mentioned)
Sonata
Kyourou
Capone
System 7-kun
OSX-tan
Various Mac-kuns

i'm considering adding the version-specific OSX-tans, but that hasn't come up yet (i only have about 4-5 issues planned so far).

also, i consider Capone to be the representation for System 7.

(i also feel like saying that you should be open to discussion, since i'm hoping to keep this thread less about specific characters and more about non-character constructs, like the OS-tan world and relationships.)

@Pentium: that's kinda sad. i know neptune and odyssey are going to be a part of my comic, but i have yet to assign them a role (they'll likely recieve a bigger part in a later arc, like i had planned to do with 1.0-tan/kun and 2.0-tan/kun. it sounds like an interesting characterization, though, and given the images of her around, i think it suits her well. ^^

@Aurora: OS/2 hates the windows? you're gonna have to tell me more about that later, that could prove to be a key plot element in the comic. :3

since we're all in agreement on the way the windows and mac houses work, do you want to discuss any other factions?

[Krizonar]

@kriz: any particular reason you want a list of the macs?

the ones i have in the comic so far are:
Apple I (though only in pictures)
Apple II
Lisa (only mentioned)
Sonata
Kyourou
Capone
System 7-kun
OSX-tan
Various Mac-kuns

i'm considering adding the version-specific OSX-tans, but that hasn't come up yet (i only have about 4-5 issues planned so far).

also, i consider Capone to be the representation for System 7.

(i also feel like saying that you should be open to discussion, since i'm hoping to keep this thread less about specific characters and more about non-character constructs, like the OS-tan world and relationships.)

I'll definitely be open to discussion, just obviously not about other systems. I can't even tell you the Windows OS timeline (I had to be corrected that ME came after 2000), I shouldn't really be helping with anything there.

Nah, I just wondered if there was any solidified canon of what Macs are where, but that seems version specific too, so it doesn't really matter.
Your story also sounds interesting, because I do like Capone's character, I was just unsure where she came from. I'll have to read your story sometime, though you seem to not have System 6 in it.