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JA8956 / Patrick

Yup the minimum system requirements are also important; let me tell you 10 years ago I put win 98 on a 08486DX2 machine, which was really no fun. But with actual hardware a new O/S is able to bring out its full potential. But also there was also always some stuff which wouldn’t run on the new system, for e.g., special software for companies.

I’ also don’t give vista 10/10 points, there are some small things I´m afraid of.
Overall I give Vista 8/10 points.

And the thing which I really dislike are that Linux & Vista haters , if they say its crap with even no trying it makes me crazy

C-Chan

Well even Windows 95 has trouble running on old 486 machines, even though it was advertised that it could. Under such circumstances, it's really important to use an OS better designed for older hardware. Windows 3.1 or NT, a lightweight Linux or BSD distribution, or even OS/2 -- that way, everything can run at its full potential. In terms of relative speed, Office 3.0 ran as fast in the hardware of its day as Office 2003 runs on modern systems today.

That certain applications don't run on new [I'm guessing Windows] versions is in part a factor of Microsoft not fully committed to backwards compatibility, but also a factor of the companies not diligent in their efforts in keeping their applications up-to-date. They also share tremendous fault in relying on proprietary solutions, knowing full well they cannot last forever.

My own company still relies on OS/2 Warp to run certain databases written for that platform, which is harder and harder to do since IBM no longer supports OS/2 Warp. Had they chosen to write them using Open Standards instead of tying them to a single vendor, they would have been able to migrate those critical applications to any platform they needed. The same holds true with over-reliance on the DOC format -- now that DOCX is being peddled by the latest versions of Office, billions of data files already written in older formats will slowly and surely slide into obsolescence. Hence the reason why there's so much interest lately by governments and corporations in Open Document formats, to ensure that a file created today can still be opened (with its formatting perfectly preservered) 30 years from now. And thankfully, there's also growing interest in office suites that WILL abide by Open Formats, and not change them every 2-3 years.

When it all comes down to it, everything depends on how much work the user wants to put into his/her computer. If the extent of tinkering with an old computer involves sticking in an old install CD and calling it a day if it doesn't work (or works badly), then yes that won't be fun. But if you love what you do and take a little time to get to know the software and hardware you're using, then you can do really amazing things on any platform, be it Windows, Mac, Linux, BSD, OS/2, Amiga, and all the countless other systems we now have OS-tans for.

Heck, it's labors of love by dedicated hobbyists that have made them successfully implement hard drive, CD-ROM, ethernet, USB, etc support for COMMODORE 64 MACHINES, which have not been commercially supported for over 18 years!!!

http://www.64hdd.com/64hdd/details/c64-64hdd.html
http://www.ide64.org/index.html
http://www.dunkels.com/adam/tfe/
http://home.ica.net/~leifb/commodore/ethernet.html

Even I sometimes find it tempting to ask "why bother?", but then I remind myself of the sheer power of conviction, and greatly admire when people actually put that conviction into positive action (in this case, breathing remarkable new life into old but venerable machines).

The real potential of hardware and software is meaningless, unless the user himself strives to make use of his own potential.

Otherwise, you just end up with disposable computers -- and its no coincidence that companies that profit off of disposable products also make efforts to stifle individual potential as well.

Aurora Borealis

Hard drive, CD ROM, USB, and ethernet for the Commodore 64?! That is truly amazing and it is incredible what a loyal fanbase can do!

I got a newer Mac yesterday! It's a 1.5 GHz Mac Mini running Leopard (10.5.4 to be exact) and it also came with a wireless keyboard and mouse, all for a bargain price!

I got all of my files transferred (although I had to do so manually, the automatic way didn't work for one reason or another) and after two hours of struggling, I got Inkscape installed!

I tried Inkscape 0.44, 0.45 and 0.46 along with X11 2.3.0 and 2.2.3. But with Inkscape 0.46 and X11 2.23, I found the working combination!

I just hope I never have to go through all that hassle ever again! >__< But it's finally working!

C-Chan

Wow! Everyone's posting in a hundred million directions! At this rate, I'm gonna reach my response cap in no time. @@;

Guess I'll have to treat every post as an "immediate response required one", and just reply to them all for today. ^^;

Bella

Wow, I didn't know any companies anywhere still used OS/2 o__O

And those Commodore 64 hobbyists are so cool! I can't believe what can be done with those old machines...

Congrats on the new Mac Mini, Aurora-sama! And hey, you've finally gotten to try Leopard

My dad tossed around the idea of getting a Mac Mini, but when he saw the iMac, 'twas love at first sight. I personally think the MacBook would be better (I do have a laptop bias), but then again, I'm not going to be the one buying it ^^

And I shall remember all this Inkscape stuff. Y'know, for when I eventually commandeer his iMac when it's not being used as a work computer. XD

Aurora Borealis

Leopard is running well on my Mac Mini but upon finding out that my scanner does NOT work with Leopard, I am torn between the decision to switch to Tiger or not. It's hard because Leopard looks so freaking cool!! But, I really REALLY do not want to get a new scanner and get rid of my otherwise still perfectly usable scanner (which still works with my G3). And my parents aren't allowing me to keep my old G3 either

And I'm afraid that if I do switch to Tiger on the Mini, that I would have to reinstall Inkscape all over again!

Bella

I've never been one to encourage keeping an OS cause it looks good...would you be installing Tiger alongside Leopard, or replacing it?

That's so sad that you don't get to keep your old G3! Did your folks give you any reasons why you can't? Will you be donating it as a school computer or giving it to a friend, or just scrapping it? O__O

I sure know that I'm keeping all my computers, even they they end up not running. Ditto for scanners and printers...I somehow feel the junk of today will be the antiques of tomorrow...

Aurora Borealis

Unfortunately if I do install Tiger, it would be replacing Leopard entirely. Unless there really is a way to dual-boot.

I still want to keep my G3, at least for running Classic applications. But if I'm not able to keep it, I'll sell or give it away. Say no to e-waste!

C-Chan

Well look at it this way,... is it cheaper to buy Tiger or a new scanner? ^^;

Very sad to see this happen, but are you absolutely sure you exhausted all possibilities to get the scanner to work? There's many internal and workflow benefits that Leopard offers over Tiger, so downgrading might solve that one problem but create 10 more for you. '__'

Please keep at it -- check Mac forums if need be.

If you can, post up your scanner's specs and maybe I can dig up some more info?

Added after 2 minutes:

Worse comes to worse, we can set up a Virtualbox environment (with a shared folder with your Mac) and have a Linux distro handle all your scanning needs. :P

Bella

If I were you, I'd ask if I could keep that computer. If it has some use, you don't want to lose that...

And you should go to the scanner company website and see if you can find drivers for Leopard...

Aurora Borealis

Can't use Virtualbox (isn't that Intel-only? I'm using a PowerPC Mac Mini) though.

I'm using an Epson Perfection 636u scanner (it's old but still gets the job done well) but through some LURKING MOAR online I did find one solution on a discussion where a person was having the exact same problem as I did:

http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=6549144

The solution is a program called VueScan which supports Leopard and a variety of scanners, including the one that I have! The downside though is that the free version is only a trial and the full versions cost $40 or $80 for the high-end one.

However I am not sure how much longer my 636u will keep working so if I do spend $40 for the basic VueScan, it may not be money well spent.

And all the scanners I have searched for online cost at least $50. There was a very good one I found for $50 but was not sure whether it supported Leopard or not (some sources said yes, others no)

C-Chan

WAAAAAAH?? You mean Leopard is also available in PowerPC-mode? I thought they'd gone 100% Mactel. @___@

Well yeah, in that case that changes the whole playbook altogether. -____-;

The enfuriating thing is that that particular model is presumably well-supported by SANE's Epson frontend:

http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html#Z-EPSON

But that just won't do us any good in this particular case.

You do make it sound like the scanner is in pretty bad shape, so I would happen to agree that the investment on VueScan might not be worth it -- certainly not when you can get a newer and faster scanner for the same price.

If you have the opportunity to purchase the other scanner locally, do so as it will make it easier to return in case it doesn't work. But by all means, your first step is to check this website to make sure it has a recent Leopard driver for the new scanner in question:

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/SupportLeopard.jsp

And if something doesn't sound clear, call them and ask them before making any kind of purchase.

For the time being, you might have to do like I do and just draw straight to the computer. Inkscape is particularly forgiving to mouse-only artists. ^___^

Aurora Borealis

My scanner is not in bad shape at all, just old and because of how old it is, my parents are afraid that it may not last much longer but it hasn't shown any signs of breaking down and I have been using it for 2 and a half years.

For my digital work, drawing straight on the computer is not a problem but without a scanner, I won't be able scan up my hand-drawn comics

C-Chan

Aa sou sou... that means no conclusion to System 1-chan's fairy tale. @.@

....

Okay, time to check that list. ^^
Or,... conversely,... spend a few days with Leopard-chan and see if she's everything you ever wanted and more. If not, then you can downgrade to 10.4. But if so,... then mayhap it's time for a new scanner...

ORRRRRR... just try to find some way to keep the old one. I mean you SHOULD have a second one anyway for backup purposes -- see how much it helped Bella-hime during her XP reinstallation! ^^

What if, for example, your Mac Mini blew up while working on some important term paper? Wouldn't it be great to have another system handy to finish the job? I wish I knew more about the situation, but between that, running legacy programs, getting your scanner to work... and just plain saving money... it seems like there's many reasons to build a case for keeping the G3 handy. '___'

Aurora Borealis

Upon finding out that Photoshop 7 is also unsupported in Leopard, I am going to switch to Tiger.

It's for the best, I'll be able to keep my old scanner and Photoshop version (and not have to pay $40+ for a new scanner, $500+ for a new version of Photoshop) and I will not sacrifice very much when switching. But still... I'm going to miss the cover flow, Quick look features and the really cool-looking 3D dock! ;__;

But when I do switch, I really really hope that I don't have to reinstall Inkscape and X11 again!

Bella

Awww, I'd just hissy fit my way into keeping that old Mac. 'Course, that is me...my family knows full well that I'm keeping my old computers and peripherals no matter what.

I actually always assumed that Macs came with PS preinstalled. Today I found out otherwise...damn, I guess when my dad gets his iMac he's gonna have to get Photoshop for it (because PS will be very, very, very needed for its use).

C-Chan

Ah well, guess Tiger-sama it is. ^__^
It's not a bad choice (she's like the XP of the Mac world), but you will need to reinstall Inkscape/X11, I'm sure. `v'

Not sure who I should be angrier at... Apple for creating those kind of artificial incompatibilities, or Adobe for not patching older software (and charging a helluva lot of money for new copies).

NejinOniwa

Sup, fellows.
Having a computer worth bragging about isn't really normal for me yet, so I'm gonna have to make a run for it.

RRRRRRRRRAAAAAADEOON 4870~~~~~

GAWR! Delta is on SPEED! And I run on ELECTRICITY! This world is AWESOME! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIII!

*explodes*

C-Chan

Eewww.... isn't it gross when people spontaneously explode? The nerve of them... so glad I never do that. Fufufu... ^____________^

This is the thingie, right? ^__~

NejinOniwa

Yup. Or, relatively, since it's a Sapphire brand, but still.

I WANT TO LICK IT ALL OVER! BUT THEN IT WOULD BE BROKEN SO I CAN'T! BUT STILL! GAWR! OwO